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Username Post: Kushner Security Clearance
foolish
superstar
Posts 2786
foolish
07-14-17 09:56 AM - Post#1701965    

With all the DJT Jr BS going around right now, I am thoroughly convinced that "collusion" occurred, but that the Trump org is far too stupid to realize what it was. I truly don't think they've done anything negligent (they didn't know), and criminality is far from proven at all, but holy shit.

What I am absolutely shocked by is Jared Kushner. This douche nozzle has been carried through life by his family and now his in-laws and hold a very senior position based fully on nepotism (participation trophies). Furthermore, he has security clearance. A security clearance he got while claim zero foreign contacts - not foreign gov rep contacts, or foreign spies, not contacts. This is an obvious and blatant lie. Now it comes out that he has revised his forms 3 times and added hundreds of foreign contacts. Yet he still hold clearance.

How is their not more bipartisan outrage? Are declarations to support security clearances at the highest level not really that big a deal? Is it not signed under penalty of law?

I'm also kinda bored since most of you fuckers have obviously woken up and realized you've been cheerleading the march to totalitarianism....
Kanrok
legend
Posts 20647
Kanrok
07-14-17 10:22 AM - Post#1701966    

I understand Trump offers Russian dressing for the salads at Trump National.

We need another special prosecutor!

On another note, have you ever heard Kushner speak?

“The greatest thing we can do just unite and love on each other and like, no barriers, no borders, like, we all need to just co-exist.”

- K. Perry

PuckRogue
moderator
Posts 36582
PuckRogue
07-14-17 10:39 AM - Post#1701968    

Wouldn't it be great for the haters if collusion was actually a crime?

-PR

Marcelino Jeopardy
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Posts 4130
Marcelino Jeopardy
07-14-17 11:01 AM - Post#1701972    

Has anyone on the left ever heard of the boy who cried wolf?
foolish
superstar
Posts 2786
foolish
07-14-17 11:20 AM - Post#1701973    

Ya, the boy cried wolf, then you fuckers dismissed him cuz it didn't suit your narrative! now all the chickens are gone, your dog is pregnant and the children are asking about bread lines and your wife is making every dinner out of potatoes, vodka and tears!
foolish
superstar
Posts 2786
foolish
07-14-17 11:23 AM - Post#1701974    

  • Kanrok Said:


On another note, have you ever heard Kushner speak?





I don't think Daddy Donald lets him talk.....
Canucko29
legend
Posts 13287
Canucko29
07-14-17 01:15 PM - Post#1701977    

Foolish, I know you are trying very hard to flip the tables on SJW insults, but only one side wore pussy hats at a feminist rally while following the lead of a Muslim lady who is pro Sharia law.

foolish
superstar
Posts 2786
foolish
07-14-17 02:10 PM - Post#1701980    

  • Canucko29 Said:
Foolish, I know you are trying very hard to flip the tables on SJW insults, but only one side wore pussy hats at a feminist rally while following the lead of a Muslim lady who is pro Sharia law.



Right, the other side apparently asked the russians to help them win an election... I wonder what they had to pledge to Vlad for him to make that happen?

BOOM!

(I've really missed you hard-headed maniacs)
foolish
superstar
Posts 2786
foolish
07-14-17 02:12 PM - Post#1701981    

Btw - all you guys are doing a fantastic job of rearranging the deck chairs as the ship sinks.

Fantastic spin all around
Baldridge
legend
Posts 11601
Baldridge
07-14-17 02:15 PM - Post#1701982    

Now people involved are killing themselves....

Nothing to see here!...
"I can't prove any of it"-NYRfan

foolish
superstar
Posts 2786
foolish
07-14-17 02:25 PM - Post#1701983    

If that dude was a Clinton confidant there would have been all sorts of accusations from the esteemed members of this site..... particularly one suddenly silent maniac...
Canucko29
legend
Posts 13287
Canucko29
07-14-17 02:28 PM - Post#1701984    

Is this really what the DNC was hoping for? Foolish, turn off your CNN. You guys wanted to prove that Trump was behind the Wikileaks emails and had some backroom deal with Russians. There wasn't even a deal because there was no consideration offered by the Trump side or yielded. Some bungled meeting with some Russian lawyer and lobbyist that turned into nothing is your collusion? LOL.

You guys run with that.

foolish
superstar
Posts 2786
foolish
07-14-17 02:40 PM - Post#1701985    

More spin.

My post had this thesis: Kirchner got security clearance by lying. Why is that OK?
Canucko29
legend
Posts 13287
Canucko29
07-14-17 02:51 PM - Post#1701986    

For one, it's not spin. It's fact. In order to prove collusion of any sort, you have to prove that consideration was offered by both parties. Fact. Fact. You cannot prove collusion unless there was a deal. The fact that some Russians offered some dirt on the opponent isn't collusion. At best, it's speculation at this point. The Russians wanted to lax sanctions, but it is very unclear if Trump was ever offered anything in exchange or accepted anything in exchange, including his underlings.

Jared Kushner is a douche nozzle and I would just love to see him resign personally. Keep doing us favors.

Canucko29
legend
Posts 13287
Canucko29
07-14-17 02:55 PM - Post#1701987    

It's funny that you mentioned the US being on the road to totalitarianism, yet you are willing to prosecute someone on the basis of no real evidence yet of a law being broken. I thought liberals believed in the rule of law?

Kanrok
legend
Posts 20647
Kanrok
07-14-17 02:58 PM - Post#1701988    

Foolish is bored.

Knitting vagina hats is hard work, but in the end, tedious.
“The greatest thing we can do just unite and love on each other and like, no barriers, no borders, like, we all need to just co-exist.”

- K. Perry

foolish
superstar
Posts 2786
foolish
07-14-17 04:59 PM - Post#1701992    

  • Canucko29 Said:
It's funny that you mentioned the US being on the road to totalitarianism, yet you are willing to prosecute someone on the basis of no real evidence yet of a law being broken. I thought liberals believed in the rule of law?



Prosecute? I never said that. I only would support that if lying to achieve security clearance is a crime. I'd be happy with the Trump kids and in-laws being stripped of their clearances. When asked about his foreign contacts, he said he had none, that was a lie by his own admission (3 corrects to list and counting) and his bro-in-laws admission (the emails).

Clinton got impeached for lying under oath about a BJ, if Kushner lied about repeatedly meeting with Russian operatives, for the purpose of undermining HRC, on a form that he signed, shouldn't he at least be removed from a position with knowledge of national security?

I've said it before, this administration may not be doing anything illegal (with the funneling money into their pockets, and ignoring various ethical standards, and firing people questioning them), but they are sure as shit showing us what SHOULD be illegal. In nature, failure to evolve ends in extinctions - maybe its time to bring the laws around our gov into at least the last century (if not this one).


Badlands92
legend
Posts 13590
Badlands92
07-14-17 05:54 PM - Post#1701994    

  • foolish Said:
  • Canucko29 Said:
Foolish, I know you are trying very hard to flip the tables on SJW insults, but only one side wore pussy hats at a feminist rally while following the lead of a Muslim lady who is pro Sharia law.



Right, the other side apparently asked the russians to help them win an election... I wonder what they had to pledge to Vlad for him to make that happen?

BOOM!

(I've really missed you hard-headed maniacs)


Do you even read what you write? The "other side" of millions of women in genital-headgear called the Russian hotline for election help? This is why the left is so mocked. You try to play the "but you guys" game and get fucking destroyed 90 times out of 100.

Let this sink in...your team views Linda Sarsour and Donna Hylton as heroes. You have a wife, no? It must be heart-warming knowing Linda wants to remove your wife's clitoris. You have a gay male friend, family member or acquaintance, no? Invite Donna over so she can give his testicles a squeeze, while shoving a pole up his rectum & burning him before murdering him.

These are your people, foolish. Wait for it...

"But, but Ted Nugent!"
The man who passes the sentence should swing the sword.

Canucko29
legend
Posts 13287
Canucko29
07-14-17 06:15 PM - Post#1701995    

Funnelling money into their pockets? You mean like the Clintons? Unethical behavior like lying about congressional bills (Obamacare), selling weapons to violent criminals and lying to families of dead soldiers about the cause of their death? Or having secret meetings on private jet tarmac with AG's?

Yeah, when Democrats start actually charging their own for breaking laws and crying about the unethical behavior of their own, then maybe a middleground will be possible. Until then.... Stop crying because a man bested you using your own tricks.

And I didn't even mention Hillary's campaign and the Ukraine.

foolish
superstar
Posts 2786
foolish
07-14-17 06:31 PM - Post#1701996    

  • Badlands92 Said:
  • foolish Said:
  • Canucko29 Said:
Foolish, I know you are trying very hard to flip the tables on SJW insults, but only one side wore pussy hats at a feminist rally while following the lead of a Muslim lady who is pro Sharia law.



Right, the other side apparently asked the russians to help them win an election... I wonder what they had to pledge to Vlad for him to make that happen?

BOOM!

(I've really missed you hard-headed maniacs)


Do you even read what you write? The "other side" of millions of women in genital-headgear called the Russian hotline for election help? This is why the left is so mocked. You try to play the "but you guys" game and get fucking destroyed 90 times out of 100.

Let this sink in...your team views Linda Sarsour and Donna Hylton as heroes. You have a wife, no? It must be heart-warming knowing Linda wants to remove your wife's clitoris. You have a gay male friend, family member or acquaintance, no? Invite Donna over so she can give his testicles a squeeze, while shoving a pole up his rectum & burning him before murdering him.

These are your people, foolish. Wait for it...

"But, but Ted Nugent!"



You've lost your ever loving mind. This thread has zero to do with vagina hats (man those hates scare you guys, huh?). whY do you keep trying to spin it there?

foolish
superstar
Posts 2786
foolish
07-14-17 06:33 PM - Post#1701997    

  • Canucko29 Said:
Funnelling money into their pockets? You mean like the Clintons? Unethical behavior like lying about congressional bills (Obamacare), selling weapons to violent criminals and lying to families of dead soldiers about the cause of their death? Or having secret meetings on private jet tarmac with AG's?

Yeah, when Democrats start actually charging their own for breaking laws and crying about the unethical behavior of their own, then maybe a middleground will be possible. Until then.... Stop crying because a man bested you using your own tricks.

And I didn't even mention Hillary's campaign and the Ukraine.




More spin. nice. I think you should check the mirror for the tears my friend. you poor guys are falling all over yourselves trying to avoid addressing the simple question of Kushner's lies and why they're ok.

You know I'm right.


taz
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Posts 9634
taz
07-14-17 06:38 PM - Post#1701998    

Bill Clinton meeting with the AG while a Presidential candidate who happens to be his wife is under investigation is trying to influence an election, don't you think? And to a much greater degree, don't you think?
Large Screen Laptop...$600
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Badlands92
legend
Posts 13590
Badlands92
07-14-17 08:08 PM - Post#1702000    

  • foolish Said:
You've lost your ever loving mind. This thread has zero to do with vagina hats (man those hates scare you guys, huh?). whY do you keep trying to spin it there?


This is tiresome.

Canucko mentioned the hats and you gladly replied with a "but so did you guys". Honestly, I know you are in major reach mode, but the "hates" don't scare us. I think anyone with half a brain finds the hats pitiful more than anything.

I know what the thread is about, and like most of America, I could care less about the Russia thing. If after all this time (going on 9 months now) they do uncover something REALLY nefarious between the Trump camp & proven Russian election interference, bring on the impeachment and President Mike Pence.
The man who passes the sentence should swing the sword.

Johnny_Upton
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Posts 28832
Johnny_Upton
07-14-17 08:11 PM - Post#1702001    

IF Kushner lied, he should lose his clearance. It would be nice to see both parties embrace this basic tenant.

I have a feeling that the revision is partly due to the Rooskie hysteria. It's to bad Ol Cankles reset button didn't work.

Maybe we'll get another remake of Red Dawn staring a bunch of SJW's
Dis somanumbatching country was founded so that the liberties of common patriotic citizens like me could not be taken away by a bunch of fargin iceholes... like yourselves.

#Filthystrong

Posux
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Posux
07-14-17 08:11 PM - Post#1702002    

  • taz Said:
Bill Clinton meeting with the AG while a Presidential candidate who happens to be his wife is under investigation is trying to influence an election, don't you think? And to a much greater degree, don't you think?




You don't see the difference?

Johnny_Upton
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Posts 28832
Johnny_Upton
07-14-17 08:14 PM - Post#1702003    

One is defiantly worse

Dis somanumbatching country was founded so that the liberties of common patriotic citizens like me could not be taken away by a bunch of fargin iceholes... like yourselves.

#Filthystrong

Baldridge
legend
Posts 11601
Baldridge
07-14-17 08:32 PM - Post#1702004    

Agreed...
"I can't prove any of it"-NYRfan

Kanrok
legend
Posts 20647
Kanrok
07-14-17 08:34 PM - Post#1702005    

You're just a vaginahataphobe.
“The greatest thing we can do just unite and love on each other and like, no barriers, no borders, like, we all need to just co-exist.”

- K. Perry

Kanrok
legend
Posts 20647
Kanrok
07-14-17 10:32 PM - Post#1702006    

  • foolish Said:

You've lost your ever loving mind. This thread has zero to do with vagina hats (man those hates scare you guys, huh?). whY do you keep trying to spin it there?




What are these hates you speak of?

How do these hates scare anyone?
“The greatest thing we can do just unite and love on each other and like, no barriers, no borders, like, we all need to just co-exist.”

- K. Perry

Kanrok
legend
Posts 20647
Kanrok
07-15-17 07:05 AM - Post#1702007    



“The greatest thing we can do just unite and love on each other and like, no barriers, no borders, like, we all need to just co-exist.”

- K. Perry

foolish
superstar
Posts 2786
foolish
07-15-17 08:48 AM - Post#1702008    

  • Johnny_Upton Said:
IF Kushner lied, he should lose his clearance. It would be nice to see both parties embrace this basic tenant.




Exactly.
Kanrok
legend
Posts 20647
Kanrok
07-15-17 10:40 AM - Post#1702010    

“The greatest thing we can do just unite and love on each other and like, no barriers, no borders, like, we all need to just co-exist.”

- K. Perry

Posux
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Posts 31645
Posux
07-16-17 11:32 AM - Post#1702017    

  • Johnny_Upton Said:
One is defiantly worse





You ok with this Trump Jr. meeting?

Johnny_Upton
Moderator
Posts 28832
Johnny_Upton
07-16-17 12:57 PM - Post#1702018    

Depends on what was discussed/agreed to/etc.

Are we to prohibit any/all politicians from any discussions with foreigners?
Dis somanumbatching country was founded so that the liberties of common patriotic citizens like me could not be taken away by a bunch of fargin iceholes... like yourselves.

#Filthystrong

Posux
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Posux
07-16-17 07:19 PM - Post#1702025    

  • Johnny_Upton Said:
Depends on what was discussed/agreed to/etc.

Are we to prohibit any/all politicians from any discussions with foreigners?




Just look at the emails. Does that sit well with you. Russis is a little diffeeent than "foreigners."

Country over party.

What Bill did was despicable. Your turn.

foolish
superstar
Posts 2786
foolish
07-17-17 09:51 AM - Post#1702029    

  • Johnny_Upton Said:
Depends on what was discussed/agreed to/etc.

Are we to prohibit any/all politicians from any discussions with foreigners?



I'm far more concerned with the following:
1) If it was all above board, why deny the meeting on clearance forms and the first revision of said forms.
2) If its legal to ask foreign contacts for dirt on the opposition, knowing full well that there is really no absolute way of knowing if the contact is a spy or just someone with dirt, should it be?

I read today that things like credit card debt can cause clearance revocation, how can potentially being recruited by a foreign power and then not disclosing it not be at least a security clearance removal?

Also read today that the POTUS can basically hand clearance to whomever he/she wants without limitation, so that seems like it should change... not retroactively change, but moving forward.

Canucko29
legend
Posts 13287
Canucko29
07-17-17 10:50 AM - Post#1702030    

It was interesting that a recent study showed that people of faith are more open-minded than atheists. Me being somewhere in the middle, I can't say I wasn't surprised.

http://www.dailywire.com/news/18655/our-corrup t-me...

I would bet they would find the same results between conservatives and liberals.

foolish
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foolish
07-17-17 10:54 AM - Post#1702031    

I think there is definitely something to the idea that a certain openness is required to consider the unprovable.

I would suggest that the prevalence of folks following the same sect of religion as their parents and neighbors suggests the same lack of openness that believing in nothing does. I mean when you start going to a catholic church with mom and dad at 5 years old, and continue going to that church for the next 80 years, have you really demonstrated openness? Have you really opened yourself to anything? Or just grabbed onto what was most convenient?
Canucko29
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Posts 13287
Canucko29
07-17-17 11:06 AM - Post#1702032    

Rejecting one's religious or political views wholeheartedly and 100% isn't the standard for being open-minded. I would suggest the standard is being able to see the other side of the argument and being able to understand its merits.

I would suggest that the majority of people who have abandoned their religion did so probably because their prayers weren't being answered.

However, in all fairness, the same can be said for liberals who become conservative.

Kanrok
legend
Posts 20647
Kanrok
07-17-17 12:15 PM - Post#1702034    

Or you can grow up in the Catholic Church, drift away, search other religions and find them lacking, get married, have kids, become more active in the Catholic Church, then study everything you can get your hands on and conclude that the church you attend as a youth actually got it right.

“The greatest thing we can do just unite and love on each other and like, no barriers, no borders, like, we all need to just co-exist.”

- K. Perry

foolish
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Posts 2786
foolish
07-17-17 12:18 PM - Post#1702035    

  • Kanrok Said:
Or you can grow up in the Catholic Church, drift away, search other religions and find them lacking, get married, have kids, become more active in the Catholic Church, then study everything you can get your hands on and conclude that the church you attend as a youth actually got it right.





You just told my father's story in the RC Church. I have a sneaking suspicion it may end up being mine as well (kinda hope it does).

What you are talking about is completely different to the person who never doubts anything for a second of their life. While undoubtedly there is a lot of comfort and relief in never searching or asking questions, I don't see any way its a sign of an open mind. A simple one perhaps.... not an open one.
Kanrok
legend
Posts 20647
Kanrok
07-17-17 12:31 PM - Post#1702036    

I hope it does too!
“The greatest thing we can do just unite and love on each other and like, no barriers, no borders, like, we all need to just co-exist.”

- K. Perry

Posux
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Posux
07-17-17 02:45 PM - Post#1702037    

  • Kanrok Said:
Or you can grow up in the Catholic Church, drift away, search other religions and find them lacking, get married, have kids, become more active in the Catholic Church, then study everything you can get your hands on and conclude that the church you attend as a youth actually got it right.





As a Catholic I find this interesting. I have grown further and further away as time has gone on purely based on the behavior of the Church. Even recently, just purely disgusting behavior.

Kanrok
legend
Posts 20647
Kanrok
07-17-17 03:21 PM - Post#1702039    

  • Posux Said:
  • Kanrok Said:
Or you can grow up in the Catholic Church, drift away, search other religions and find them lacking, get married, have kids, become more active in the Catholic Church, then study everything you can get your hands on and conclude that the church you attend as a youth actually got it right.





As a Catholic I find this interesting. I have grown further and further away as time has gone on purely based on the behavior of the Church. Even recently, just purely disgusting behavior.



I get it. Many feel the same way. I also do. I want to see anyone connected to the abuse scandal put away and the victims compensated. But I can separate what individuals do from what the Church teaches. I don't believe in protecting the wrongdoers, but I do believe in protecting those (the vast majority) who had zero to do with it.



“The greatest thing we can do just unite and love on each other and like, no barriers, no borders, like, we all need to just co-exist.”

- K. Perry

PuckRogue
moderator
Posts 36582
PuckRogue
07-18-17 10:28 AM - Post#1702046    

  • Canucko29 Said:
Rejecting one's religious or political views wholeheartedly and 100% isn't the standard for being open-minded. I would suggest the standard is being able to see the other side of the argument and being able to understand its merits.

I would suggest that the majority of people who have abandoned their religion did so probably because their prayers weren't being answered.

However, in all fairness, the same can be said for liberals who become conservative.



I would suggest, and I think the facts would bear this out, that maturity and wisdom drive liberals to conservatism...

-PR

foolish
superstar
Posts 2786
foolish
07-18-17 10:39 AM - Post#1702047    

  • PuckRogue Said:
  • Canucko29 Said:
Rejecting one's religious or political views wholeheartedly and 100% isn't the standard for being open-minded. I would suggest the standard is being able to see the other side of the argument and being able to understand its merits.

I would suggest that the majority of people who have abandoned their religion did so probably because their prayers weren't being answered.

However, in all fairness, the same can be said for liberals who become conservative.



I would suggest, and I think the facts would bear this out, that maturity and wisdom drive liberals to conservatism...

-PR



"Maturity and wisdom"? I think "cynicism and bitterness" do it as well.
Canucko29
legend
Posts 13287
Canucko29
07-18-17 11:28 AM - Post#1702048    

  • foolish Said:
  • PuckRogue Said:
  • Canucko29 Said:
Rejecting one's religious or political views wholeheartedly and 100% isn't the standard for being open-minded. I would suggest the standard is being able to see the other side of the argument and being able to understand its merits.

I would suggest that the majority of people who have abandoned their religion did so probably because their prayers weren't being answered.

However, in all fairness, the same can be said for liberals who become conservative.



I would suggest, and I think the facts would bear this out, that maturity and wisdom drive liberals to conservatism...

-PR



"Maturity and wisdom"? I think "cynicism and bitterness" do it as well.



I actually agree with cynicism, an underrated quality, but anger? If conservatives are angry, then what the hell are liberals? Did you see conservatives make Hillary Clinton run around the perimeter of an arena with hee security detail to avoid rioters?

I would probably agree with maybe "frustrated."

foolish
superstar
Posts 2786
foolish
07-18-17 11:50 AM - Post#1702049    

  • Canucko29 Said:


I actually agree with cynicism, an underrated quality, but anger? If conservatives are angry, then what the hell are liberals? Did you see conservatives make Hillary Clinton run around the perimeter of an arena with hee security detail to avoid rioters?

I would probably agree with maybe "frustrated."



I could defer to frustrated, but that frustration usually manifests itself in angry tirades against kids, liberals, minorities, the gov. In my mind I'm envisioning the grumpy old guy who is mad at the world and convinced he's been done wrong (rather than recognizing that his failures are his own doing).

In my experience, that old bastard is always a conservative. My in-laws have 7 total siblings in Wisconsin, 5 are general failures dependent on handouts, 2 are very successful. 5 are HUGE Trump/Walker supporters.... 2 were heavy HRC. You do the
Posux
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Posux
07-18-17 12:24 PM - Post#1702051    

Or people just want to selfishly pay less taxes as they get older.

Marcelino Jeopardy
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Marcelino Jeopardy
07-18-17 12:26 PM - Post#1702052    

Oh yeah, everyone I know gets MORE selfish as they get older.

(also, conservatives donate more than liberals)
Canucko29
legend
Posts 13287
Canucko29
07-18-17 12:27 PM - Post#1702053    

  • foolish Said:
  • Canucko29 Said:


I actually agree with cynicism, an underrated quality, but anger? If conservatives are angry, then what the hell are liberals? Did you see conservatives make Hillary Clinton run around the perimeter of an arena with hee security detail to avoid rioters?

I would probably agree with maybe "frustrated."



I could defer to frustrated, but that frustration usually manifests itself in angry tirades against kids, liberals, minorities, the gov. In my mind I'm envisioning the grumpy old guy who is mad at the world and convinced he's been done wrong (rather than recognizing that his failures are his own doing).

In my experience, that old bastard is always a conservative. My in-laws have 7 total siblings in Wisconsin, 5 are general failures dependent on handouts, 2 are very successful. 5 are HUGE Trump/Walker supporters.... 2 were heavy HRC. You do the



Well then... I'm totally with. Let's work together to get rid out of handouts and put your old conservative in-laws out of their misery. You can send out the fliers and I'll do the public speaking.

Canucko29
legend
Posts 13287
Canucko29
07-18-17 12:27 PM - Post#1702054    

  • Marcelino Jeopardy Said:
Oh yeah, everyone I know gets MORE selfish as they get older.

(also, conservatives donate more than liberals)



Tip better too.

Canucko29
legend
Posts 13287
Canucko29
07-18-17 12:38 PM - Post#1702055    

  • foolish Said:
  • Canucko29 Said:


I actually agree with cynicism, an underrated quality, but anger? If conservatives are angry, then what the hell are liberals? Did you see conservatives make Hillary Clinton run around the perimeter of an arena with hee security detail to avoid rioters?

I would probably agree with maybe "frustrated."



I could defer to frustrated, but that frustration usually manifests itself in angry tirades against kids, liberals, minorities, the gov.



With liberals, they get frustrated with... well... everybody who doesn't agree with them, including kids, liberals, minorities and the government.

PuckRogue
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Posts 36582
PuckRogue
07-18-17 12:51 PM - Post#1702056    

  • Posux Said:
Or people just want to selfishly pay less taxes as they get older.



You mean "keep mine" selfish over "give me yours" selfish?

Yes. Yes you do.

-PR

foolish
superstar
Posts 2786
foolish
07-18-17 12:59 PM - Post#1702058    

  • Canucko29 Said:
  • foolish Said:
  • Canucko29 Said:


I actually agree with cynicism, an underrated quality, but anger? If conservatives are angry, then what the hell are liberals? Did you see conservatives make Hillary Clinton run around the perimeter of an arena with hee security detail to avoid rioters?

I would probably agree with maybe "frustrated."



I could defer to frustrated, but that frustration usually manifests itself in angry tirades against kids, liberals, minorities, the gov.



With liberals, they get frustrated with... well... everybody who doesn't agree with them, including kids, liberals, minorities and the government.



never said we were perfect....
foolish
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Posts 2786
foolish
07-18-17 01:03 PM - Post#1702059    

  • Canucko29 Said:
  • foolish Said:
  • Canucko29 Said:


I actually agree with cynicism, an underrated quality, but anger? If conservatives are angry, then what the hell are liberals? Did you see conservatives make Hillary Clinton run around the perimeter of an arena with hee security detail to avoid rioters?

I would probably agree with maybe "frustrated."



I could defer to frustrated, but that frustration usually manifests itself in angry tirades against kids, liberals, minorities, the gov. In my mind I'm envisioning the grumpy old guy who is mad at the world and convinced he's been done wrong (rather than recognizing that his failures are his own doing).

In my experience, that old bastard is always a conservative. My in-laws have 7 total siblings in Wisconsin, 5 are general failures dependent on handouts, 2 are very successful. 5 are HUGE Trump/Walker supporters.... 2 were heavy HRC. You do the



Well then... I'm totally with. Let's work together to get rid out of handouts and put your old conservative in-laws out of their misery. You can send out the fliers and I'll do the public speaking.



Ha!! My wife has an aunt who convinced the gov that she was disabled (she isn't) in 1982. Has lived off the system ever since. Lives in a 2 bedroom apt where she pays $36/month rent (utilities included) and recently convinced (brow-beat) her doctors into dual hip replacements (gov dime) b/c she saw how much attention a different lady in her building got when she got the surgery. This aunt is a life long republican and blames everything on lazy freeloading liberals. As long as the GOP is pro-life she will support any cut to welfare that they propose. Its absolutely insane.
Canucko29
legend
Posts 13287
Canucko29
07-18-17 01:11 PM - Post#1702061    

  • foolish Said:
  • Canucko29 Said:
  • foolish Said:
  • Canucko29 Said:


I actually agree with cynicism, an underrated quality, but anger? If conservatives are angry, then what the hell are liberals? Did you see conservatives make Hillary Clinton run around the perimeter of an arena with hee security detail to avoid rioters?

I would probably agree with maybe "frustrated."



I could defer to frustrated, but that frustration usually manifests itself in angry tirades against kids, liberals, minorities, the gov. In my mind I'm envisioning the grumpy old guy who is mad at the world and convinced he's been done wrong (rather than recognizing that his failures are his own doing).

In my experience, that old bastard is always a conservative. My in-laws have 7 total siblings in Wisconsin, 5 are general failures dependent on handouts, 2 are very successful. 5 are HUGE Trump/Walker supporters.... 2 were heavy HRC. You do the



Well then... I'm totally with. Let's work together to get rid out of handouts and put your old conservative in-laws out of their misery. You can send out the fliers and I'll do the public speaking.



Ha!! My wife has an aunt who convinced the gov that she was disabled (she isn't) in 1982. Has lived off the system ever since. Lives in a 2 bedroom apt where she pays $36/month rent (utilities included) and recently convinced (brow-beat) her doctors into dual hip replacements (gov dime) b/c she saw how much attention a different lady in her building got when she got the surgery. This aunt is a life long republican and blames everything on lazy freeloading liberals. As long as the GOP is pro-life she will support any cut to welfare that they propose. Its absolutely insane.



My mother is a moderate liberal. Raised me as a liberal. Probably the most important person to any success I've ever enjoyed, set a great example getting her law degree and passing the bar exam in '93 and is very well respected by most people who know her. So I don't hate liberals at all. I've maintained many liberal stances.

She went from far left to moderate much like Hike here did, but absolutely detests the SJW movement (I know, you aren't a fan either). I even caught her saying one day that the feminist movement is dead. This is a woman who was the president of the biggest First Nation feminist movement of our province, lol.

I guess we all have our influences.


Kanrok
legend
Posts 20647
Kanrok
07-18-17 01:19 PM - Post#1702062    

Really?

I don't know about what goes on in your neck of the woods, but I have clients with life long real disabilities who cannot get government assistance. Most do, but some don't. They get declined as a matter of course, and the appeals process is crazy. Maybe back in the 80's it was easier. I didn't start work in this area of the law until the mid 90's.

As for doctors getting "brow-beaten" into bilateral hip replacement surgery. Sorry, but I find that hard to believe. There has to be documented radiological proof of joint degeneration, significant pain and loss of range of motion and failure of conservative treatment protocals to qualify for hip replacement surgery. Doctors don't just take a patient's word for it.

But hey! There's always exceptions to the rule.

“The greatest thing we can do just unite and love on each other and like, no barriers, no borders, like, we all need to just co-exist.”

- K. Perry

foolish
superstar
Posts 2786
foolish
07-18-17 02:06 PM - Post#1702063    

KR - she's closer to your neck of the woods - Milwaukee WI. I shit you not about any of this. The difference between her and your clients is probably that she is wiley as a fox. And just as determined. If we could harness her drive for good she would have a nobel prize or two.

I'll ask my Father-in-law for some details, but it was presented to me that over the course of 8 or so months she complained enough to get it done.

I do know that a few months before she had the surgery she visited Oregon. She kept insisting on being wheeled around in a chair, but when she forgot, it was quite clear that her getaway sticks were still perfectly functional
Kanrok
legend
Posts 20647
Kanrok
07-18-17 02:25 PM - Post#1702064    

It's habit for me to question.

I'm preternaturally opposed to anecdote!
“The greatest thing we can do just unite and love on each other and like, no barriers, no borders, like, we all need to just co-exist.”

- K. Perry

Posux
Senior Vet
Posts 31645
Posux
07-18-17 03:06 PM - Post#1702065    

  • Marcelino Jeopardy Said:
Oh yeah, everyone I know gets MORE selfish as they get older.

(also, conservatives donate more than liberals)



Donate to Churches.

How many people become liberal after being lifelong Republicans in your experience?

Happens the other way around all the time.



foolish
superstar
Posts 2786
foolish
07-18-17 04:28 PM - Post#1702067    

  • Canucko29 Said:

My mother is a moderate liberal. Raised me as a liberal. Probably the most important person to any success I've ever enjoyed, set a great example getting her law degree and passing the bar exam in '93 and is very well respected by most people who know her. So I don't hate liberals at all. I've maintained many liberal stances.

She went from far left to moderate much like Hike here did, but absolutely detests the SJW movement (I know, you aren't a fan either). I even caught her saying one day that the feminist movement is dead. This is a woman who was the president of the biggest First Nation feminist movement of our province, lol.

I guess we all have our influences.





Thats pretty funny.

My mom is a fierce liberal, devout agnostic and extremely proud Canadian. Contrasted with my (by the time I was 12 or so) deeply devote Catholic dad, I credit her with bringing out my skeptical/questioning nature.

I don't think she'll ever forgive me for moving to the USA!
Posux
Senior Vet
Posts 31645
Posux
07-18-17 04:37 PM - Post#1702068    

http://nypost.com/2017/07/18/hundreds-o f-boys-phys...

Johnny_Upton
Moderator
Posts 28832
Johnny_Upton
07-18-17 06:23 PM - Post#1702069    

  • Posux Said:
Or people just want to selfishly pay less taxes as they get older.



Or as one ages and gains wisdom, they understand how .gov pisses money away and don't want to stand for such foolishness
Dis somanumbatching country was founded so that the liberties of common patriotic citizens like me could not be taken away by a bunch of fargin iceholes... like yourselves.

#Filthystrong

Beagle
hall of famer
Posts 7660
Beagle
07-18-17 07:32 PM - Post#1702070    

  • Johnny_Upton Said:
  • Posux Said:
Or people just want to selfishly pay less taxes as they get older.



Or as one ages and gains wisdom, they understand how .gov pisses money away and don't want to stand for such foolishness


Yup. One does age and gain wisdom, but hopefully we have already been advised at an early age by the wisdom of our parents and can recognise this foolishness in advance. Current and future generations? I have my doubts..

Kanrok
legend
Posts 20647
Kanrok
07-18-17 08:45 PM - Post#1702071    

  • Posux Said:


It's not like they are having drug-fueled gay orgies at the Vatican.

....wait...yep...they are!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4667098/V a...
“The greatest thing we can do just unite and love on each other and like, no barriers, no borders, like, we all need to just co-exist.”

- K. Perry

Posux
Senior Vet
Posts 31645
Posux
07-19-17 11:21 AM - Post#1702081    

  • Johnny_Upton Said:
  • Posux Said:
Or people just want to selfishly pay less taxes as they get older.



Or as one ages and gains wisdom, they understand how .gov pisses money away and don't want to stand for such foolishness



Yes like building walls.

Instigator24
all star
Posts 2046
Instigator24
07-20-17 06:59 AM - Post#1702099    

  • Posux Said:


It's shameful the church hasn't cleaned house and properly addressed its sordid. The old regime and those with blind faith just deny or avoid acknowledging this shit. It's in their best interest to blow things up now, and get with the times before the tight lipped, antiquated heirarchy sweep more dirt under the rug and those responsible for these crimes are too old or dead and never see punishment. I'm not anti-Catholic, and I think a non-literal interpretation of portions of the bible can produce a young generation or moral people. But if this nonsense keeps rearing its ugly head, Catholicism will lose any shred of credibility it has left.
Kanrok
legend
Posts 20647
Kanrok
07-20-17 12:01 PM - Post#1702104    

  • Instigator24 Said:
  • Posux Said:


It's shameful the church hasn't cleaned house and properly addressed its sordid. The old regime and those with blind faith just deny or avoid acknowledging this shit. It's in their best interest to blow things up now, and get with the times before the tight lipped, antiquated heirarchy sweep more dirt under the rug and those responsible for these crimes are too old or dead and never see punishment. I'm not anti-Catholic, and I think a non-literal interpretation of portions of the bible can produce a young generation or moral people. But if this nonsense keeps rearing its ugly head, Catholicism will lose any shred of credibility it has left.



I agree that the Church needs reformation on some issues. The sex abuse scandal was horrible, and anyone involved in it deserves prison, and the diocese that hid those events should be bankrupted. It's the only way to clean house.

I think the Church in the US has done a good job of cleaning house since they were forced - a the edge of a sword - to do so back in the early 2000s.

There are some very troubling things going on in the Catholic Church at the highest levels currently. Pope Francis, for all of the good things he's done, has done damage to the Church, especially in light of Amoris laeteita. His inability to clarify issues about providing communion to divorced and civilly remarried Catholics is problematic.

It is very hard for the parish priest to teach doctrine to his parishioners when the doctrine appears to be on shaky ground.

More importantly, there are things going on at the Vatican that make it extremely hard for average Catholics to take the Church seriously on issues of morals and values.

There is the Vatican Bank scandal for instance. There is the story of the Cardinal who spent millions on decorating his home - all from Church funds. And there is the story I posted above, about a Cardinal's apartment at the Vatican being used by priests for drug filled gay orgies (not that heterosexual orgies are any better or less sinful!).

All in all I can see why people would question the validity of Catholic teaching when many of those responsible for the teaching are blatantly hypocritical.

So I don't want to argue about hypocrisy.

I am interested in your take on what you perceive Catholic Biblical interpretation to be. I think you might be surprised to find out what it truly is.
“The greatest thing we can do just unite and love on each other and like, no barriers, no borders, like, we all need to just co-exist.”

- K. Perry

Instigator24
all star
Posts 2046
Instigator24
07-20-17 12:35 PM - Post#1702106    

I think what I meant was that I'm not against Catholicism or have issues with how the majority of the 'flock' interpret the bible. If you look from the outside, you see somewhat of a story book, some, if most coming across as outlandish fantasy (mostly Old Testament if memory serves correctly). Now, with that said, a religion born in a time when there was no scientific fact to prove these tales wrong, I'm sure it was highly effective, and most likely necessary to persuade the rabble to join 'the good side'. That's how I see it, as I'm sure the majority do. But there's probably a few zealots waiting for the four horsemen of the apocalypse to ride again.

I think my main point is, read between the lines, and take the good teachings to heart. Belief is never a bad thing to have, as long as it doesn't hurt others. And if a believer fears the wrath of his/her god shall they sin, then that's not such a bad thing.


Kanrok
legend
Posts 20647
Kanrok
07-20-17 01:06 PM - Post#1702107    

I don't disagree.

Growing up in the Church we never really studied the Bible the way many Protestants do.

But growing older, I took it upon myself to actually study it. It is an amazing collection of books written in different literary styles, employing different literary techniques and designed to teach eternal truths.

The Old Testament is very interesting. Reading the way early Church fathers interpreted the text is fascinating. Most Catholic biblical scholars, and apologists and theologians will say that many OT stories are didactic fiction (the Book of Jonah is a great example). Stories meant to teach.

I've never read the Bible thinking it was all literally true (Jonah in the belly of the whale for three days and three nights?). But as you inferred, there is a lot to be learned and applied from the Bible.
“The greatest thing we can do just unite and love on each other and like, no barriers, no borders, like, we all need to just co-exist.”

- K. Perry

foolish
superstar
Posts 2786
foolish
07-20-17 02:02 PM - Post#1702108    

I went through the whole catholic school program - from K-grade 13.

I remember the New Testament being taught as "parables" and the word parable being defined as a story with a message rather than being factually accurate. I distinctly recall the teachers talking about the story of Jesus feeding the crowd with the fishes and loaves as meaning that faith in God will sustain your soul in the way that food sustains your body.....

....as a scientist its funny to see how the more extreme sects of Christianity take literal - i.e. scientific - interpretations of the bible but decline to accept scientific data as factual....
HEAVYWEIGHT
legend
Posts 10401
HEAVYWEIGHT
07-22-17 01:51 PM - Post#1702200    

I think jared and invanka are shitties, could give a flying insert bad word here.


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