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Username Post: Portland Police Can't Label You a Gang Member...
PuckRogue
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Posts 36802
PuckRogue
09-13-17 08:02 AM - Post#1703986    

...because that would be mean.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2017/...

-PR

Beagle
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Posts 7687
Beagle
09-13-17 08:54 AM - Post#1703988    

"disproportionately affects minorities"?

Wonder why that would be. Any guesses?

foolish
superstar
Posts 2966
foolish
09-13-17 09:24 AM - Post#1703991    

I love that you found this.

1) I get what they are saying a little, this has to be a 4th amendment issue (remember, these designations need no arrest or conviction). If you're a minor banger at 15, and leave the gang at 20, is it fair that every time a cop pulls you over at 40 he calls for backup and puts you on the ground at gunpoint? Seems like all sides were in favor of this, so I have no issue.

2) the house sprayed wth 28 bullets? 3 doors down from my buddy. The neighborhood is fairly gentrified and coming up (my buddy is selling as a result of this latest shooting) and his home will get $850K+ easily. There is one house on his block, its been owned by the same (black) family for decades, the great grandkids or whoever is late-teens early-20s living there are bloods and the neighborhood is technically crip (I don't know how they claim that since the population is all middle-class white professionals). I could have the bloods-crips backwards. Anyway, every few months someone drives by and takes a few shots at the gang house. This month the missed... the shot up house was about 5 houses down and across the street....

All law enforcement in Portland disproportionately affects minorities. We're like 95% white!
PuckRogue
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Posts 36802
PuckRogue
09-13-17 10:20 AM - Post#1703994    

If 90% of gang members are minorities, how is it racist to list 90% of gang members because they're minorities? This isn't even profiling, it's noting that these people are dangerous.

I get that their inevitable lengthy criminal history would come up at a given traffic stop, which would alert the officer to be more cautious, but why not have intelligence to know that Crip guy is suspiciously driving through Blood neighborhood and act on that information?

It's embarrassing, Foolish. If this were "We've listed people who play Dungeons & Dragons because they might have swords", it would never wind up on anyone's radar because D&D guys are 90% crackers.

Race has NOTHING to do with this. This is about dangerous assholes who do unfathomably stupid and violent stuff.

-PR

foolish
superstar
Posts 2966
foolish
09-13-17 10:47 AM - Post#1704000    

PR - this change has NOTHING to do with Dangerous , its about Association.

Let me state one thing up front - I'm not on any crusade about racial profiling. I think, after reading the coverage on this issue, that the gang designation should have gone away because its just wrong, irregardless of racial profiling. Remember, this designation isn't tied to criminality, its tied to association. When a black dude with an arm-long rap sheet is pulled over, there SHOULD be guns drawn and backup called. Same for a white dude with a long sheet. When a black dude gets pulled over who has no record but may have been a blood 20 years ago, he should NOT get a gun drawn and backup called, same with a white dude with no record who may have stayed at a holiday in 20 years ago. Land of rules and laws, they should apply to all equally.

Regarding your first point - the racist thing is not because 90% of bangers are black, its because 99% of blacks aren't bangers yet when profiling is involved they are treated like the 1%.

Off my soapbox.
PuckRogue
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Posts 36802
PuckRogue
09-13-17 11:17 AM - Post#1704001    

Here's the rub - there's no dude who was a Blood 20 years ago that doesn't have an "arm-long" rap sheet.

I can appreciate that it's not about race, for you, but it is about race. This wouldn't be happening, as aforementioned, if this was all WASPs.

-PR

PuckRogue
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Posts 36802
PuckRogue
09-13-17 11:20 AM - Post#1704002    

I've known Crips and Bloods and just about everything else I ever lived near and there aren't many that really make it out and come back as "productive members of society" from any gang setting. You're taking intelligence away from police to keep a one-in-a-million ex-Crip from being "treated unfairly" during a traffic stop. It's dumb.

-PR

PuckRogue
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Posts 36802
PuckRogue
09-13-17 11:21 AM - Post#1704003    

...and it was Tim who found this.

I just stole it from his FB page.

-PR

foolish
superstar
Posts 2966
foolish
09-13-17 11:49 AM - Post#1704005    

God I can't believe I'm arguing this. I truly can't help myself sometimes.

I would argue that this issue is only related to the "one-in-a-million" ex-crip. All the normal ones have records that will fill the cop's screen during a stop. They get the gun-to-head experience due to the rap sheet. The one-in-a -million one is the guy who had shitty friends but never did anything wrong and gets the gun to the head because of their past associations.

I don't know anything about recidivism or how many get out of the "game", so I'll defer to your expertise about that.
PuckRogue
moderator
Posts 36802
PuckRogue
09-13-17 02:55 PM - Post#1704012    

There aren't any "innocent bystander" ex-Bloods, Foolish.

The cops don't label someone a gang member based simply on his or her associations or who they party with.

They base it on first-hand knowledge and various obvious things like tattoos and such. No one just "hangs out" with the Crips and isn't a total scumbag.

-PR

foolish
superstar
Posts 2966
foolish
09-13-17 03:58 PM - Post#1704018    

Oh for fuck sake.... why can't I stop.....

"Police were able to add someone to the list if the person self-identified as a member of a gang, participated in a gang initiation ritual, committed a gang-related crime or displayed two or more observable signs of gang membership."

Sounds like they could label someone a gang member without much information. Red hat and tagging a wall?
Kanrok
legend
Posts 20849
Kanrok
09-13-17 04:06 PM - Post#1704019    

I have zero issues with police departments keeping intelligence files on gang-bangers.

It is an entirely different notion to stop a "known" gang-banger just for being on a list.

The constitution still means a great deal to me.
“The greatest thing we can do just unite and love on each other and like, no barriers, no borders, like, we all need to just co-exist.”

- K. Perry

Canucko29
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Posts 13352
Canucko29
09-13-17 04:41 PM - Post#1704021    

I was at an outdoor swimming pool with my son earlier this summer. I saw walking towards me these guys who looked like skinheads. Their alpha leader had tattoos running through his balled head and a nose ring like something you'd see out of the National Geographic with one of those primitive African tribes.

As soon as they got within distance, I saw that one of them was wearing a "Fuck Trump" t-shirt. And then I thought, "Phewwwww..."

No kidding...

When you see what the FBI and other federal agencies and the police can do without restraints, then take a look at the present day weakness of the KKK or neo-Nazi's (Baldy would probably be the only one who thinks they're still a major threat).

The same could happen to street gangs without similar restraints. Too bad that's not gonna happen anytime soon.

PuckRogue
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Posts 36802
PuckRogue
09-13-17 05:46 PM - Post#1704025    

  • foolish Said:
Oh for fuck sake.... why can't I stop.....

"Police were able to add someone to the list if the person self-identified as a member of a gang, participated in a gang initiation ritual, committed a gang-related crime or displayed two or more observable signs of gang membership."

Sounds like they could label someone a gang member without much information. Red hat and tagging a wall?



Guys who show up just "wearing a red hat and tagging a wall" get shot in the face by both Crips and Bloods. It's not something you do part-time, Foolish.

-PR

PuckRogue
moderator
Posts 36802
PuckRogue
09-13-17 05:48 PM - Post#1704026    

I promise that cops aren't idiots. They know who the gang members are and they'd know a poser.

-PR

foolish
superstar
Posts 2966
foolish
09-13-17 06:09 PM - Post#1704028    

I'll defer to you on this. I've known precious few "gang bangers" in my life, and any I've encountered have been "friends of friends", and were very nice to me. Same thing with "outlaw bikers".

PR - you seem to have a bit of a trigger on the topic of bloods/crips.... any reason?


PuckRogue
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Posts 36802
PuckRogue
09-13-17 08:19 PM - Post#1704031    

Do I? I don't know that I should. I went to school with some Rollin 60's and knew my share of gang members in So Cal as a kid and then I hired quite a few gang members in Phoenix when I was there.

-PR

Beagle
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Posts 7687
Beagle
09-13-17 08:42 PM - Post#1704033    

  • PuckRogue Said:
If 90% of gang members are minorities, how is it racist to list 90% of gang members because they're minorities? This isn't even profiling, it's noting that these people are dangerous.


Well yes. I don't see how it could be viewed any other way. I mean, what do they intend to do? Make it so that police can only arrest one black person for every white one? Profiling who fits gang description only makes neighbourhoods safer. Isn't that the point of the exercise?

NYRfan
legend
Posts 34213
09-13-17 08:58 PM - Post#1704035    

Do the cops typically stop these guys just to give them purple nurples and pink bellies and chortle "Nyuk Nyuk Nyuk"...... or do they have advance intel from the list, and notice them lurking around high-crime zones at 2 AM. ?

That would be important to look into.

I like the assumption that these "list guys" are typically studying at the library, or serving food at the soup kitchen, when the cops harass them for nothing but being on a 20- years- old list.

foolish
superstar
Posts 2966
foolish
09-14-17 09:38 AM - Post#1704042    

  • PuckRogue Said:
Do I? I don't know that I should. I went to school with some Rollin 60's and knew my share of gang members in So Cal as a kid and then I hired quite a few gang members in Phoenix when I was there.

-PR



meh, maybe I'm over-inferring. You generally have more nuanced opinions. This one was "gang affiliation = bad hombre, end of story".
PuckRogue
moderator
Posts 36802
PuckRogue
09-14-17 10:06 AM - Post#1704044    

Because that's true. There aren't any "hookers with hearts of gold" amongst Bloods and Crips.

Now, Hispanic gangs do wind up being a bit different. It's more about family and the neighborhood.

-PR

foolish
superstar
Posts 2966
foolish
09-14-17 10:30 AM - Post#1704047    

You cannot tell me that Snoop Lion doesn't have a heart of gold!!!!

FAKE NEWS!!
PuckRogue
moderator
Posts 36802
PuckRogue
09-14-17 10:57 AM - Post#1704051    

He falls under the aforementioned "one in a million"

-PR

Jobu
superstar
Posts 4016
Jobu
09-14-17 05:51 PM - Post#1704066    

There was this really tough gang in my neighborhood when I was growing up. You were in it from "your first cigarette to your last dyin' day". They could cut the rug pretty good too.
"As iron sharpens iron, so one person sharpens another."

HEAVYWEIGHT
legend
Posts 10459
HEAVYWEIGHT
09-17-17 02:17 PM - Post#1704104    

Democrat part = cancer.

COPY > Paste.

The 11th Commandment.

foolish
superstar
Posts 2966
foolish
09-23-17 06:47 PM - Post#1704268    

Copy is greater than paste?
Kanrok
legend
Posts 20849
Kanrok
09-23-17 08:05 PM - Post#1704269    

Without copy, there is no paste.

- Aristotle, probably
“The greatest thing we can do just unite and love on each other and like, no barriers, no borders, like, we all need to just co-exist.”

- K. Perry

Jobu
superstar
Posts 4016
Jobu
09-23-17 11:56 PM - Post#1704271    

nah bro, that was socrates
"As iron sharpens iron, so one person sharpens another."


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