Select "print" from your browser's "File" menu.

Back to Post
Print Topic

Username Post: Trump vs. the the Hard Left/Hard Right
Canucko29
legend
Posts 14034
Canucko29
01-10-18 10:44 AM - Post#1708746    

I'm guessing this will be another strange bedfellows thread, but it certainly appears that there are two segments who don't want immigration reform. For one, those who don't want Trump to have any legislative accomplishments, probably those suffering the most from Trump Derangement Syndrome, and who are willing to see the Democrats shut down government if it means not conceding anything to him. And of course a second segment who don't want to see any amnesty whatsoever on the hard right. You can include Tucker Carlson, Ann Couture and much of the populist right base that really stumped for him in the general election.

My take is simple. I completely disagreed with Tucker Carlson yesterday when he said that Americans don't have any blame when it comes to immigration when it was the actions of government. Actually, if you consider Americans part of a nation state, then yes citizens are to be blamed for the actions of their representatives. For years, the United States has done a piss-poor job of enforcing border laws and border security. That's not to say that Americans are 100% to blame, but they share in the blame. And with that, you share in the responsibility of coming to a compromise on a difficult issue.

I wouldn't see an issue with comprehensive immigration reform provided that border security issues are addressed and naturalization occurs gradually and with some serious caveats.

Now, shifting focus on the Democrats, I think they need to also be held accountable. This is probably their best chance ever at getting bipartisan agreement on a pathway to citizenship as the GOP has clearly laid out what they consider a reasonable compromise. I know that they would like nothing more than to have illegals voting in their districts within 2 years with full state benefits, but that kind of proposal will only further divide the country which can ill afford any more divide.

I personally think under the conditions that Trump laid out, the proposal is reasonable, fair and does not lend a predictable political advantage to either side and and entails risk to both sides. They say you know you have a good deal when both parties are unhappy with the terms, and I would suggest that this proposal meets that test.

What are everybody else's thoughts?

Kanrok
legend
Posts 22318
Kanrok
01-10-18 10:52 AM - Post#1708747    

I think I might have said here months ago that Trump would support some sort of amnesty program.

The Catholic in me supports this because I know families who would be greatly affected if something is not done.

Immigration reform should not be as hard as they make it.

I support a bipartisan approach to this issue.

Trump is actually playing this well.
“The greatest thing we can do just unite and love on each other and like, no barriers, no borders, like, we all need to just co-exist.”

- K. Perry

PuckRogue
moderator
Posts 37325
PuckRogue
01-10-18 11:38 AM - Post#1708748    

Trump sent out the ICE crews to remove everyone who had a criminal history. Everyone who was crying over the guy in Hawaii (with two DUIs) is a fucking idiot. I don't care how "nice a guy" he is, if you went to France, got two DUIs and then petitioned for citizenship, they'd literally tell you to fuck off.

Trump's next move will be to give everyone who doesn't have a criminal history amnesty. Hispanics are overwhelmingly Catholic and are all little Republicans just waiting to vote. This will turn the tables that C29 mentioned with regard to "Dems loving to have them voting".

-PR

NYRfan
legend
Posts 35742
01-10-18 02:17 PM - Post#1708754    

I think the left is most apoplectic about not getting their expected "deal". Where they get everything they demand, and give nothing in trade.

That's always been the lib-dem concept, a child's view.

Obama turned it into a science, and convinced the left that they would never have to be fair or bargain in good faith again.

So what happens when an infantile gaggle of 40-50 million people don't get what they were promised ? You get the Trump "resistance". Saddest, sickest episode in American history.

They also see the writing on the wall (pun intended) that they won't get away with lying and cheating about the wall for the 3rd time. Trump won't let them skate like Reagan and GW did, letting them totally go back on a legal, official agreement.

foolish
superstar
Posts 3748
foolish
01-10-18 02:59 PM - Post#1708755    

  • Canucko29 Said:
I'm guessing this will be another strange bedfellows thread, but it certainly appears that there are two segments who don't want immigration reform. For one, those who don't want Trump to have any legislative accomplishments, probably those suffering the most from Trump Derangement Syndrome, and who are willing to see the Democrats shut down government if it means not conceding anything to him. ?



Substitute "Obama" for "Trump" and "Republican" for "Democrat" and you have a post I could have made anytime in the last administration.

Partisan shit aside, it needs to stop. I'm doing my best to form an opinion on each trump move on its own merit, but damn its hard with the media (all of it).
foolish
superstar
Posts 3748
foolish
01-10-18 03:00 PM - Post#1708756    

  • PuckRogue Said:
Trump sent out the ICE crews to remove everyone who had a criminal history. Everyone who was crying over the guy in Hawaii (with two DUIs) is a fucking idiot. I don't care how "nice a guy" he is, if you went to France, got two DUIs and then petitioned for citizenship, they'd literally tell you to fuck off.

Trump's next move will be to give everyone who doesn't have a criminal history amnesty. Hispanics are overwhelmingly Catholic and are all little Republicans just waiting to vote. This will turn the tables that C29 mentioned with regard to "Dems loving to have them voting".

-PR


I think there is ample evidence that they're gone beyond just grabbing ciminals. Thats my mason-dixon on this issue. Get rid of all the dangerous folks you want, but don't drag a parent away from their kids at gunpoint.
Pete
legend
Posts 10867
Pete
01-10-18 03:40 PM - Post#1708759    

I think the notion that so many of these people are Catholics and will likely vote R in the future is a grave oversimplification. The school system, culture, and other influential tools will have a much more dramatic impact on these individuals then there parent(s) faith in my opinion.

I'd rather shitcan anyone who legally or illegally downloaded a Kendrick Lamar track in the last 18 months. All of 'em.
NYRfan
legend
Posts 35742
01-10-18 03:42 PM - Post#1708760    

What happens to kids of bank robbers, or murderers, or embezzlers ?

Pretty sick of this theory that we owe criminals a free ride for their whole family, including everybody 40 years older and 40 years younger.

It's just a ridiculous concept.

Especially when the real option is going home to your country of citizenship. It's not execution or jailing or maiming.

Wow, the level of dishonesty and deliberate obtuseness required to support the weepy left's take on this...... numbing.

PuckRogue
moderator
Posts 37325
PuckRogue
01-10-18 03:52 PM - Post#1708761    

  • foolish Said:
  • PuckRogue Said:
Trump sent out the ICE crews to remove everyone who had a criminal history. Everyone who was crying over the guy in Hawaii (with two DUIs) is a fucking idiot. I don't care how "nice a guy" he is, if you went to France, got two DUIs and then petitioned for citizenship, they'd literally tell you to fuck off.

Trump's next move will be to give everyone who doesn't have a criminal history amnesty. Hispanics are overwhelmingly Catholic and are all little Republicans just waiting to vote. This will turn the tables that C29 mentioned with regard to "Dems loving to have them voting".

-PR


I think there is ample evidence that they're gone beyond just grabbing ciminals. Thats my mason-dixon on this issue. Get rid of all the dangerous folks you want, but don't drag a parent away from their kids at gunpoint.



Link? Every single story I’ve read (or had to do research on) had some kind of criminal element to it.

Allow me to crush any example you provide.

-PR

Johnny_Upton
Moderator
Posts 29599
Johnny_Upton
01-10-18 04:20 PM - Post#1708762    

  • foolish Said:
  • Canucko29 Said:
I'm guessing this will be another strange bedfellows thread, but it certainly appears that there are two segments who don't want immigration reform. For one, those who don't want Trump to have any legislative accomplishments, probably those suffering the most from Trump Derangement Syndrome, and who are willing to see the Democrats shut down government if it means not conceding anything to him. ?



Substitute "Obama" for "Trump" and "Republican" for "Democrat" and you have a post I could have made anytime in the last administration.

Partisan shit aside, it needs to stop. I'm doing my best to form an opinion on each trump move on its own merit, but damn its hard with the media (all of it).



It started on this issue prior to Obama

Bush could have passed immigration reform if the Dems were willing to work with him at all.

Unfortunately they viewed potentially losing support among Hispanics over solving a problem.

I think Trump is doing the calculus to see if he can convince Hispanic voters that he is working on the issue and if he can throw the Shitlibs under the bus for not supporting the bill. It probably forces Dems in swing districts to support a reasonable bill
Dis somanumbatching country was founded so that the liberties of common patriotic citizens like me could not be taken away by a bunch of fargin iceholes... like yourselves.

#Filthystrong

Canucko29
legend
Posts 14034
Canucko29
01-10-18 06:23 PM - Post#1708767    

  • Pete Said:
I think the notion that so many of these people are Catholics and will likely vote R in the future is a grave oversimplification. The school system, culture, and other influential tools will have a much more dramatic impact on these individuals then there parent(s) faith in my opinion.

I'd rather shitcan anyone who legally or illegally downloaded a Kendrick Lamar track in the last 18 months. All of 'em.



On the other hand, Latinos have always been more Republican than blacks. Usually 30-35% voting Repub in general elections whereas blacks haven't come close to those numbers since the Eisenhower days. These people come from countries that are very poorly managed, usually socialist, and have a very negative experience with big government authorities.

The Democrats always have to walk a tight rope with them knowing that they tend to be a little bit more socially conservative and probably even hold stronger values on liberty and freedom than most black people do. I don't think a naturalized legal Mexican population is a shoe in for Democrats. Not by a long shot.

Canucko29
legend
Posts 14034
Canucko29
01-10-18 06:26 PM - Post#1708768    

  • Johnny_Upton Said:
  • foolish Said:
  • Canucko29 Said:
I'm guessing this will be another strange bedfellows thread, but it certainly appears that there are two segments who don't want immigration reform. For one, those who don't want Trump to have any legislative accomplishments, probably those suffering the most from Trump Derangement Syndrome, and who are willing to see the Democrats shut down government if it means not conceding anything to him. ?



Substitute "Obama" for "Trump" and "Republican" for "Democrat" and you have a post I could have made anytime in the last administration.

Partisan shit aside, it needs to stop. I'm doing my best to form an opinion on each trump move on its own merit, but damn its hard with the media (all of it).



It started on this issue prior to Obama

Bush could have passed immigration reform if the Dems were willing to work with him at all.

Unfortunately they viewed potentially losing support among Hispanics over solving a problem.

I think Trump is doing the calculus to see if he can convince Hispanic voters that he is working on the issue and if he can throw the Shitlibs under the bus for not supporting the bill. It probably forces Dems in swing districts to support a reasonable bill



If you want to talk about Obama and where his values lied, all one needs to look at is his Executive Order on Cuban refugees landing in Florida. It's all about votes. Not principles.

foolish
superstar
Posts 3748
foolish
01-10-18 11:16 PM - Post#1708771    

  • PuckRogue Said:
  • foolish Said:
  • PuckRogue Said:
Trump sent out the ICE crews to remove everyone who had a criminal history. Everyone who was crying over the guy in Hawaii (with two DUIs) is a fucking idiot. I don't care how "nice a guy" he is, if you went to France, got two DUIs and then petitioned for citizenship, they'd literally tell you to fuck off.

Trump's next move will be to give everyone who doesn't have a criminal history amnesty. Hispanics are overwhelmingly Catholic and are all little Republicans just waiting to vote. This will turn the tables that C29 mentioned with regard to "Dems loving to have them voting".

-PR


I think there is ample evidence that they're gone beyond just grabbing ciminals. Thats my mason-dixon on this issue. Get rid of all the dangerous folks you want, but don't drag a parent away from their kids at gunpoint.



Link? Every single story I’ve read (or had to do research on) had some kind of criminal element to it.

Allow me to crush any example you provide.

-PR



There are hundreds! Bring it big boy!

http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/27/politics/c onnecticut...
PuckRogue
moderator
Posts 37325
PuckRogue
01-11-18 11:57 AM - Post#1708785    

  • foolish Said:
  • PuckRogue Said:
  • foolish Said:
  • PuckRogue Said:
Trump sent out the ICE crews to remove everyone who had a criminal history. Everyone who was crying over the guy in Hawaii (with two DUIs) is a fucking idiot. I don't care how "nice a guy" he is, if you went to France, got two DUIs and then petitioned for citizenship, they'd literally tell you to fuck off.

Trump's next move will be to give everyone who doesn't have a criminal history amnesty. Hispanics are overwhelmingly Catholic and are all little Republicans just waiting to vote. This will turn the tables that C29 mentioned with regard to "Dems loving to have them voting".

-PR


I think there is ample evidence that they're gone beyond just grabbing ciminals. Thats my mason-dixon on this issue. Get rid of all the dangerous folks you want, but don't drag a parent away from their kids at gunpoint.



Link? Every single story I’ve read (or had to do research on) had some kind of criminal element to it.

Allow me to crush any example you provide.

-PR



There are hundreds! Bring it big boy!

http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/27/politics/c onnecticut...



Did you read the article? He was going through the process properly until he missed a court date and then an order was issued for him to leave the country.

He wasn't tracked down by ICE, he has simply been informed, through proper channels because of his mistake, that he needs to leave.

-PR

foolish
superstar
Posts 3748
foolish
01-11-18 01:10 PM - Post#1708790    

Are you kidding? You have to be kidding. That makes him a bad hombre? Also, are you moving the goalposts, or did I misunderstand your challenge. That dude had no criminal record, wasn't that your criteria?
FreezingTexan
legend
Posts 12565
FreezingTexan
01-11-18 02:39 PM - Post#1708798    

  • foolish Said:
  • PuckRogue Said:
Trump sent out the ICE crews to remove everyone who had a criminal history. Everyone who was crying over the guy in Hawaii (with two DUIs) is a fucking idiot. I don't care how "nice a guy" he is, if you went to France, got two DUIs and then petitioned for citizenship, they'd literally tell you to fuck off.

Trump's next move will be to give everyone who doesn't have a criminal history amnesty. Hispanics are overwhelmingly Catholic and are all little Republicans just waiting to vote. This will turn the tables that C29 mentioned with regard to "Dems loving to have them voting".

-PR


I think there is ample evidence that they're gone beyond just grabbing ciminals. Thats my mason-dixon on this issue. Get rid of all the dangerous folks you want, but don't drag a parent away from their kids at gunpoint.




https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-saga-of-elian-gon zalez-a-lost-boy-who-was- finally-found
Germany, it's like Wisconsin only with a really bad past.

Pete
legend
Posts 10867
Pete
01-11-18 03:38 PM - Post#1708802    

  • Canucko29 Said:
  • Pete Said:
I think the notion that so many of these people are Catholics and will likely vote R in the future is a grave oversimplification. The school system, culture, and other influential tools will have a much more dramatic impact on these individuals then there parent(s) faith in my opinion.

I'd rather shitcan anyone who legally or illegally downloaded a Kendrick Lamar track in the last 18 months. All of 'em.



On the other hand, Latinos have always been more Republican than blacks. Usually 30-35% voting Repub in general elections whereas blacks haven't come close to those numbers since the Eisenhower days. These people come from countries that are very poorly managed, usually socialist, and have a very negative experience with big government authorities.

The Democrats always have to walk a tight rope with them knowing that they tend to be a little bit more socially conservative and probably even hold stronger values on liberty and freedom than most black people do. I don't think a naturalized legal Mexican population is a shoe in for Democrats. Not by a long shot.



Oh I agree wholeheartedly. I was just pointing out that there are so many different forms of stimulus and so much of it seems to be more favorable to a liberal mentality. I think it's safe to say that the left has won the culture war in this country and only a mighty storm could influence that otherwise.
PuckRogue
moderator
Posts 37325
PuckRogue
01-12-18 11:50 AM - Post#1708846    

  • foolish Said:
Are you kidding? You have to be kidding. That makes him a bad hombre? Also, are you moving the goalposts, or did I misunderstand your challenge. That dude had no criminal record, wasn't that your criteria?



Is it a criminal offense to miss a court date while you're petitioning for citizenship? No.

Is it grounds for dismissing your opportunity to continue to petition for citizenship? Yes.

This isn't a "we've hunted him down and are going to send him back", this is "we sent him a letter letting him know that he fucked up and has to go, now"

-PR

Johnny_Upton
Moderator
Posts 29599
Johnny_Upton
01-12-18 12:37 PM - Post#1708848    

Foolish

Something doesnt smell "right" in that story. While I'm sympathetic if the story's true with the guys plight, it doesnt make sense that per his comment - he's been working towards citizenship for a decade (Thanks Obama!)

I think there might be something else going on here
Dis somanumbatching country was founded so that the liberties of common patriotic citizens like me could not be taken away by a bunch of fargin iceholes... like yourselves.

#Filthystrong

HEAVYWEIGHT
legend
Posts 10563
HEAVYWEIGHT
01-13-18 10:44 PM - Post#1708915    


NYRfan
legend
Posts 35742
01-13-18 11:16 PM - Post#1708917    

It's official. Now every last fuckup by any fuckup anywhere, is "America's fault".

I didn't think anybody at FC would actually embrace that. But here we are.

It's not unlike the mania that supported Hitler. At least they were pissed off about WW1.

Today's sickening, ridiculous liberals are simply insane about not getting their way with wrecking America.

Just shameful and shitful.

foolish
superstar
Posts 3748
foolish
01-13-18 11:20 PM - Post#1708918    

  • PuckRogue Said:
  • foolish Said:
Are you kidding? You have to be kidding. That makes him a bad hombre? Also, are you moving the goalposts, or did I misunderstand your challenge. That dude had no criminal record, wasn't that your criteria?



Is it a criminal offense to miss a court date while you're petitioning for citizenship? No.

Is it grounds for dismissing your opportunity to continue to petition for citizenship? Yes.

This isn't a "we've hunted him down and are going to send him back", this is "we sent him a letter letting him know that he fucked up and has to go, now"

-PR



You wanted me to present cases for you to shoot down. My thesis being that there are "innocent" people being deported, yours being that they are all "bad hombres" at the core.

If the illegal entry itself is enough to, in your eyes, meet the "bad hombre" criteria, then ok... this was a pointless endevor. The quoted story involved the deportation of a guy who apparently did nothing wrong expect in relation to his entry and residence here. I don't know what else to say.

JU - I agree, it does sound fishy, too bad we're denying dur process under this adminastration, huh? Guess we'll never know for sure....

NYRfan
legend
Posts 35742
01-13-18 11:36 PM - Post#1708920    

When the first person made the claim that illegally breaking into a country "isn't bad", that's when it became a pointless endeavor.

No discussion is even possible then.

NYRfan
legend
Posts 35742
01-13-18 11:39 PM - Post#1708921    

And people having to take responsibility for their own fuckups...... = "denial of due process".

Gotta love it. They have their own private language and logic now.

foolish
superstar
Posts 3748
foolish
01-13-18 11:53 PM - Post#1708922    

You're late to the party. Or maybe not. I argued that ICE was pulling folks whose only sin was the entry: PR said their is always something more.


Johnny_Upton
Moderator
Posts 29599
Johnny_Upton
01-14-18 06:28 AM - Post#1708931    

  • foolish Said:


JU - I agree, it does sound fishy, too bad we're denying dur process under this adminastration, huh? Guess we'll never know for sure....




According to him he’s had 10 years of due process.

Look it may be that he is what he says he is and if so it’s an indictment of our jacked up immigration policies. But articles like these are completely one sided.
Dis somanumbatching country was founded so that the liberties of common patriotic citizens like me could not be taken away by a bunch of fargin iceholes... like yourselves.

#Filthystrong

Kanrok
legend
Posts 22318
Kanrok
01-14-18 07:30 AM - Post#1708933    

  • foolish Said:
You're late to the party. Or maybe not. I argued that ICE was pulling folks whose only sin was the entry: PR said their is always something more.





Not for nothing, but illegal entry into the country is still a crime.

Arresting a person for being here illegally is not a violation of due process.

Due process is what is supposed to occur after the arrest.

Probable cause for the arrest is a different concept.

“The greatest thing we can do just unite and love on each other and like, no barriers, no borders, like, we all need to just co-exist.”

- K. Perry

PuckRogue
moderator
Posts 37325
PuckRogue
01-14-18 08:25 AM - Post#1708939    

  • foolish Said:
  • PuckRogue Said:
  • foolish Said:
Are you kidding? You have to be kidding. That makes him a bad hombre? Also, are you moving the goalposts, or did I misunderstand your challenge. That dude had no criminal record, wasn't that your criteria?



Is it a criminal offense to miss a court date while you're petitioning for citizenship? No.

Is it grounds for dismissing your opportunity to continue to petition for citizenship? Yes.

This isn't a "we've hunted him down and are going to send him back", this is "we sent him a letter letting him know that he fucked up and has to go, now"

-PR



You wanted me to present cases for you to shoot down. My thesis being that there are "innocent" people being deported, yours being that they are all "bad hombres" at the core.

If the illegal entry itself is enough to, in your eyes, meet the "bad hombre" criteria, then ok... this was a pointless endevor. The quoted story involved the deportation of a guy who apparently did nothing wrong expect in relation to his entry and residence here. I don't know what else to say.

JU - I agree, it does sound fishy, too bad we're denying dur process under this adminastration, huh? Guess we'll never know for sure....




No. What I said, or had hoped to insinuate (I didn’t bother to go back and see), was that ICE was only targeting people with criminal histories. The story you posted has nothing to do with ICE. The story you posted is about someone living in the US illegally who was doing the partially right thing, trying to work through the citizenship process while already being in the country (which would be allowed in how many other countries around the world?) and he fucked up and missed a court date, thus torpedoing his own chances at attaining his citizenship with his own lack of responsibility. Somehow that’s Trump’s fault? Are you really making excuses for this guy? He’s here illegally. Period. They gave him an opportunity to fix that. He fucked it up. Now he’s been informed that he’s got to go.

If you have a court date for something you did wrong, and decide to just miss said court date, you’re subject to fines and possible incarceration. What should this guy’s punishment be? Just another chance because a writer who maybe spent 15 minutes with him on the phone says he’s a swell guy?

-PR

foolish
superstar
Posts 3748
foolish
01-14-18 09:09 AM - Post#1708941    

  • PuckRogue Said:
  • foolish Said:
  • PuckRogue Said:
  • foolish Said:
Are you kidding? You have to be kidding. That makes him a bad hombre? Also, are you moving the goalposts, or did I misunderstand your challenge. That dude had no criminal record, wasn't that your criteria?



Is it a criminal offense to miss a court date while you're petitioning for citizenship? No.

Is it grounds for dismissing your opportunity to continue to petition for citizenship? Yes.

This isn't a "we've hunted him down and are going to send him back", this is "we sent him a letter letting him know that he fucked up and has to go, now"

-PR



You wanted me to present cases for you to shoot down. My thesis being that there are "innocent" people being deported, yours being that they are all "bad hombres" at the core.

If the illegal entry itself is enough to, in your eyes, meet the "bad hombre" criteria, then ok... this was a pointless endevor. The quoted story involved the deportation of a guy who apparently did nothing wrong expect in relation to his entry and residence here. I don't know what else to say.

JU - I agree, it does sound fishy, too bad we're denying dur process under this adminastration, huh? Guess we'll never know for sure....




No. What I said, or had hoped to insinuate (I didn’t bother to go back and see), was that ICE was only targeting people with criminal histories. The story you posted has nothing to do with ICE. The story you posted is about someone living in the US illegally who was doing the partially right thing, trying to work through the citizenship process while already being in the country (which would be allowed in how many other countries around the world?) and he fucked up and missed a court date, thus torpedoing his own chances at attaining his citizenship with his own lack of responsibility. Somehow that’s Trump’s fault? Are you really making excuses for this guy? He’s here illegally. Period. They gave him an opportunity to fix that. He fucked it up. Now he’s been informed that he’s got to go.

If you have a court date for something you did wrong, and decide to just miss said court date, you’re subject to fines and possible incarceration. What should this guy’s punishment be? Just another chance because a writer who maybe spent 15 minutes with him on the phone says he’s a swell guy?

-PR




You said
"Link? Every single story I’ve read (or had to do research on) had some kind of criminal element to it."

If you are contending that his "illegal element" was skipping the meeting regarding his illegal entry, then ya, you're right. I though you were implying that every single person ICE is rounding up is guilty of something detrimental to our society. Some sort of additional criminality unrelated to the crossing of the border.

My point is that, end of the day, a lot of these people are a net positive to this country. They shouldn't be rounded up and tossed 10-15 years after coming here , when they've done nothing but good (seemingly).

foolish
superstar
Posts 3748
foolish
01-14-18 09:12 AM - Post#1708942    

  • Kanrok Said:
  • foolish Said:
You're late to the party. Or maybe not. I argued that ICE was pulling folks whose only sin was the entry: PR said their is always something more.





Not for nothing, but illegal entry into the country is still a crime.

Arresting a person for being here illegally is not a violation of due process.

Due process is what is supposed to occur after the arrest.

Probable cause for the arrest is a different concept.





Post-arrest, is the deportation without a hearing not a violation of due process? Everyone in the country is protected by the constitution, not just the citizens, no? Or is there legal precedent that illegal entry voids the constitutional protections of the 5th and 14th?

foolish
superstar
Posts 3748
foolish
01-14-18 09:17 AM - Post#1708943    

  • Johnny_Upton Said:
  • foolish Said:


JU - I agree, it does sound fishy, too bad we're denying dur process under this adminastration, huh? Guess we'll never know for sure....




According to him he’s had 10 years of due process.

Look it may be that he is what he says he is and if so it’s an indictment of our jacked up immigration policies. But articles like these are completely one sided.



You could be right. Probably on both points.

I will say this, as a legal alien, there are few places I less like to go than any dept of the gov related to my status. They have so much discretionary power its scary. They are best avoided...... so I'm guessing that he felt the same way and probably didn't go as hard as he could have.

And I maintain that the immigration system needs another, easier avenue for poor folks who just want to come here and work. We need them to do the jobs we don't want to, and they want to be here and are going to come anyway. Make a plan and implement it. Amnesty and a path to citizenship for all who meet a set of criteria. Then set up a quota of visas each year with a graduated program to get the recipients to citizenship in say 10 years if they put in the work and stay clean.
Kanrok
legend
Posts 22318
Kanrok
01-14-18 09:29 AM - Post#1708944    

  • foolish Said:
  • Kanrok Said:
  • foolish Said:
You're late to the party. Or maybe not. I argued that ICE was pulling folks whose only sin was the entry: PR said their is always something more.





Not for nothing, but illegal entry into the country is still a crime.

Arresting a person for being here illegally is not a violation of due process.

Due process is what is supposed to occur after the arrest.

Probable cause for the arrest is a different concept.





Post-arrest, is the deportation without a hearing not a violation of due process? Everyone in the country is protected by the constitution, not just the citizens, no? Or is there legal precedent that illegal entry voids the constitutional protections of the 5th and 14th?




Illegals are afforded constitutional rights.

I didn’t say otherwise.

Is deportation without a hearing a violation of due process? Not sure. It could be, but then again it might not. I’m not familiar with the deportation process.
“The greatest thing we can do just unite and love on each other and like, no barriers, no borders, like, we all need to just co-exist.”

- K. Perry

phantomenforcer
superstar
Posts 3632
phantomenforcer
01-14-18 12:08 PM - Post#1708945    

Is there a statute of limitations on illegal entry?

foolish
superstar
Posts 3748
foolish
01-14-18 12:29 PM - Post#1708948    

Apparently not..... squatters rights isn't a thing?
NYRfan
legend
Posts 35742
01-14-18 12:48 PM - Post#1708949    

As Sen Lizzy Graham just scolded us..... America doesn't belong to you, it belongs to the world.

Yes, he said that. Yes, this is the absolute core of liberal beliefs. Everything belongs to them, to give to whomever they choose.

Especially when they are both the "owner/ giver" and one of the grabby little takers.

NYRfan
legend
Posts 35742
01-14-18 12:53 PM - Post#1708952    

  • Kanrok Said:
  • foolish Said:
  • Kanrok Said:
  • foolish Said:
You're late to the party. Or maybe not. I argued that ICE was pulling folks whose only sin was the entry: PR said their is always something more.





Not for nothing, but illegal entry into the country is still a crime.

Arresting a person for being here illegally is not a violation of due process.

Due process is what is supposed to occur after the arrest.

Probable cause for the arrest is a different concept.





Post-arrest, is the deportation without a hearing not a violation of due process? Everyone in the country is protected by the constitution, not just the citizens, no? Or is there legal precedent that illegal entry voids the constitutional protections of the 5th and 14th?




Illegals are afforded constitutional rights.

I didn’t say otherwise.

Is deportation without a hearing a violation of due process? Not sure. It could be, but then again it might not. I’m not familiar with the deportation process.



Lol, so "constitutional rights" now contains protections against arrest for crimes, or removal from illegal trespassing.

Only the liberal mind could dream that up.

PuckRogue
moderator
Posts 37325
PuckRogue
01-14-18 01:00 PM - Post#1708953    

  • foolish Said:
  • PuckRogue Said:
  • foolish Said:
  • PuckRogue Said:
  • foolish Said:
Are you kidding? You have to be kidding. That makes him a bad hombre? Also, are you moving the goalposts, or did I misunderstand your challenge. That dude had no criminal record, wasn't that your criteria?



Is it a criminal offense to miss a court date while you're petitioning for citizenship? No.

Is it grounds for dismissing your opportunity to continue to petition for citizenship? Yes.

This isn't a "we've hunted him down and are going to send him back", this is "we sent him a letter letting him know that he fucked up and has to go, now"

-PR



You wanted me to present cases for you to shoot down. My thesis being that there are "innocent" people being deported, yours being that they are all "bad hombres" at the core.

If the illegal entry itself is enough to, in your eyes, meet the "bad hombre" criteria, then ok... this was a pointless endevor. The quoted story involved the deportation of a guy who apparently did nothing wrong expect in relation to his entry and residence here. I don't know what else to say.

JU - I agree, it does sound fishy, too bad we're denying dur process under this adminastration, huh? Guess we'll never know for sure....




No. What I said, or had hoped to insinuate (I didn’t bother to go back and see), was that ICE was only targeting people with criminal histories. The story you posted has nothing to do with ICE. The story you posted is about someone living in the US illegally who was doing the partially right thing, trying to work through the citizenship process while already being in the country (which would be allowed in how many other countries around the world?) and he fucked up and missed a court date, thus torpedoing his own chances at attaining his citizenship with his own lack of responsibility. Somehow that’s Trump’s fault? Are you really making excuses for this guy? He’s here illegally. Period. They gave him an opportunity to fix that. He fucked it up. Now he’s been informed that he’s got to go.

If you have a court date for something you did wrong, and decide to just miss said court date, you’re subject to fines and possible incarceration. What should this guy’s punishment be? Just another chance because a writer who maybe spent 15 minutes with him on the phone says he’s a swell guy?

-PR




You said
"Link? Every single story I’ve read (or had to do research on) had some kind of criminal element to it."

If you are contending that his "illegal element" was skipping the meeting regarding his illegal entry, then ya, you're right. I though you were implying that every single person ICE is rounding up is guilty of something detrimental to our society. Some sort of additional criminality unrelated to the crossing of the border.

My point is that, end of the day, a lot of these people are a net positive to this country. They shouldn't be rounded up and tossed 10-15 years after coming here , when they've done nothing but good (seemingly).




I’ll reiterate my previous post...

This isn’t an ICE situation. ICE has been actively pursuing and seeking out illegal aliens with criminal histories. This person is not that.

This is a “since you missed your court date, you got a letter saying that you need to leave”.

No, I don’t think this situation is one where he is a criminal. I think this is a situation where, if you don’t show up for your third day of work, you’re going to get fired. Pretty black-and-white.

Like you, I am 100% sure that he would be a “net gain” for the US...but there are thousands of people who seek citizenship every year who don’t sneak in first, don’t miss their fucking court dates and can also provide a net gain for the US.

-PR

Kanrok
legend
Posts 22318
Kanrok
01-14-18 01:18 PM - Post#1708956    

  • phantomenforcer Said:
Is there a statute of limitations on illegal entry?




I would say no, since the crime continues each day the person remains illegally in the country.
“The greatest thing we can do just unite and love on each other and like, no barriers, no borders, like, we all need to just co-exist.”

- K. Perry

phantomenforcer
superstar
Posts 3632
phantomenforcer
01-14-18 03:14 PM - Post#1708957    

I didn't think of it that way.
Pete
legend
Posts 10867
Pete
01-15-18 12:14 PM - Post#1708993    

  • foolish Said:
  • Johnny_Upton Said:
  • foolish Said:


JU - I agree, it does sound fishy, too bad we're denying dur process under this adminastration, huh? Guess we'll never know for sure....




According to him he’s had 10 years of due process.

Look it may be that he is what he says he is and if so it’s an indictment of our jacked up immigration policies. But articles like these are completely one sided.



You could be right. Probably on both points.

I will say this, as a legal alien, there are few places I less like to go than any dept of the gov related to my status. They have so much discretionary power its scary. They are best avoided...... so I'm guessing that he felt the same way and probably didn't go as hard as he could have.

And I maintain that the immigration system needs another, easier avenue for poor folks who just want to come here and work. We need them to do the jobs we don't want to, and they want to be here and are going to come anyway. Make a plan and implement it. Amnesty and a path to citizenship for all who meet a set of criteria. Then set up a quota of visas each year with a graduated program to get the recipients to citizenship in say 10 years if they put in the work and stay clean.



Sorry foolish, but I need to pile on here.

You wrote, "...the immigration system needs another, easier avenue for poor folks who just want to come here and work."

This is the crux of the problem and until you understand that it is a waste of time to discuss this point.

This country does not need more "poor folk". We need a merit based system that attracts engineers, doctors, physicists, etc. who will make a difference.

Need more dummies to pick fruit and vegetables, scrub toilets, and make beds? Sorry, importing that labor is a total non-starter.
foolish
superstar
Posts 3748
foolish
01-15-18 01:02 PM - Post#1709001    

  • Pete Said:
  • foolish Said:
  • Johnny_Upton Said:
  • foolish Said:


JU - I agree, it does sound fishy, too bad we're denying dur process under this adminastration, huh? Guess we'll never know for sure....




According to him he’s had 10 years of due process.

Look it may be that he is what he says he is and if so it’s an indictment of our jacked up immigration policies. But articles like these are completely one sided.



You could be right. Probably on both points.

I will say this, as a legal alien, there are few places I less like to go than any dept of the gov related to my status. They have so much discretionary power its scary. They are best avoided...... so I'm guessing that he felt the same way and probably didn't go as hard as he could have.

And I maintain that the immigration system needs another, easier avenue for poor folks who just want to come here and work. We need them to do the jobs we don't want to, and they want to be here and are going to come anyway. Make a plan and implement it. Amnesty and a path to citizenship for all who meet a set of criteria. Then set up a quota of visas each year with a graduated program to get the recipients to citizenship in say 10 years if they put in the work and stay clean.



Sorry foolish, but I need to pile on here.

You wrote, "...the immigration system needs another, easier avenue for poor folks who just want to come here and work."

This is the crux of the problem and until you understand that it is a waste of time to discuss this point.

This country does not need more "poor folk". We need a merit based system that attracts engineers, doctors, physicists, etc. who will make a difference.

Need more dummies to pick fruit and vegetables, scrub toilets, and make beds? Sorry, importing that labor is a total non-starter.



Your opinion. I disagree. Poor folks are going to want to come here, and we need them. To maintain this outright ban is to try to hold back the tide. Create a program and do it on our terms.

As for engineers/IT etc - Trump is cutting quotas on the visas for those people.
foolish
superstar
Posts 3748
foolish
01-15-18 01:04 PM - Post#1709002    

  • PuckRogue Said:
  • foolish Said:
  • PuckRogue Said:
  • foolish Said:
  • PuckRogue Said:
  • foolish Said:
Are you kidding? You have to be kidding. That makes him a bad hombre? Also, are you moving the goalposts, or did I misunderstand your challenge. That dude had no criminal record, wasn't that your criteria?



Is it a criminal offense to miss a court date while you're petitioning for citizenship? No.

Is it grounds for dismissing your opportunity to continue to petition for citizenship? Yes.

This isn't a "we've hunted him down and are going to send him back", this is "we sent him a letter letting him know that he fucked up and has to go, now"

-PR



You wanted me to present cases for you to shoot down. My thesis being that there are "innocent" people being deported, yours being that they are all "bad hombres" at the core.

If the illegal entry itself is enough to, in your eyes, meet the "bad hombre" criteria, then ok... this was a pointless endevor. The quoted story involved the deportation of a guy who apparently did nothing wrong expect in relation to his entry and residence here. I don't know what else to say.

JU - I agree, it does sound fishy, too bad we're denying dur process under this adminastration, huh? Guess we'll never know for sure....




No. What I said, or had hoped to insinuate (I didn’t bother to go back and see), was that ICE was only targeting people with criminal histories. The story you posted has nothing to do with ICE. The story you posted is about someone living in the US illegally who was doing the partially right thing, trying to work through the citizenship process while already being in the country (which would be allowed in how many other countries around the world?) and he fucked up and missed a court date, thus torpedoing his own chances at attaining his citizenship with his own lack of responsibility. Somehow that’s Trump’s fault? Are you really making excuses for this guy? He’s here illegally. Period. They gave him an opportunity to fix that. He fucked it up. Now he’s been informed that he’s got to go.

If you have a court date for something you did wrong, and decide to just miss said court date, you’re subject to fines and possible incarceration. What should this guy’s punishment be? Just another chance because a writer who maybe spent 15 minutes with him on the phone says he’s a swell guy?

-PR




You said
"Link? Every single story I’ve read (or had to do research on) had some kind of criminal element to it."

If you are contending that his "illegal element" was skipping the meeting regarding his illegal entry, then ya, you're right. I though you were implying that every single person ICE is rounding up is guilty of something detrimental to our society. Some sort of additional criminality unrelated to the crossing of the border.

My point is that, end of the day, a lot of these people are a net positive to this country. They shouldn't be rounded up and tossed 10-15 years after coming here , when they've done nothing but good (seemingly).




I’ll reiterate my previous post...

This isn’t an ICE situation. ICE has been actively pursuing and seeking out illegal aliens with criminal histories. This person is not that.

This is a “since you missed your court date, you got a letter saying that you need to leave”.

No, I don’t think this situation is one where he is a criminal. I think this is a situation where, if you don’t show up for your third day of work, you’re going to get fired. Pretty black-and-white.

Like you, I am 100% sure that he would be a “net gain” for the US...but there are thousands of people who seek citizenship every year who don’t sneak in first, don’t miss their fucking court dates and can also provide a net gain for the US.

-PR



PR - so basically if you are here illegally you are a bad hombre according to you. FUck you kids that now lose dad, or your employees that lose jobs, if you snuck in 30 years ago, you need to go. thats a hard line.
Pete
legend
Posts 10867
Pete
01-15-18 01:40 PM - Post#1709011    

Are you conflating Visas and immigration? I'm strictly talking about immigration. I believe Trump has consistently called on the program to be merit based. "Poor", "non-english speaking", "unskilled" need not apply.
foolish
superstar
Posts 3748
foolish
01-15-18 01:44 PM - Post#1709014    

  • Pete Said:
Are you conflating Visas and immigration? I'm strictly talking about immigration. I believe Trump has consistently called on the program to be merit based. "Poor", "non-english speaking", "unskilled" need not apply.



i think they are the same thing. I know of no avenue to citizenship without spending time on a visa first. Even as a Canadian professional with assets and married to an American I still needed to spend 4 years on a green card before I was elligible for citizenship...... I should get around to the citizenship thing....
NYRfan
legend
Posts 35742
01-15-18 06:11 PM - Post#1709051    

  • foolish Said:
  • Pete Said:
  • foolish Said:
  • Johnny_Upton Said:
  • foolish Said:


JU - I agree, it does sound fishy, too bad we're denying dur process under this adminastration, huh? Guess we'll never know for sure....




According to him he’s had 10 years of due process.

Look it may be that he is what he says he is and if so it’s an indictment of our jacked up immigration policies. But articles like these are completely one sided.



You could be right. Probably on both points.

I will say this, as a legal alien, there are few places I less like to go than any dept of the gov related to my status. They have so much discretionary power its scary. They are best avoided...... so I'm guessing that he felt the same way and probably didn't go as hard as he could have.

And I maintain that the immigration system needs another, easier avenue for poor folks who just want to come here and work. We need them to do the jobs we don't want to, and they want to be here and are going to come anyway. Make a plan and implement it. Amnesty and a path to citizenship for all who meet a set of criteria. Then set up a quota of visas each year with a graduated program to get the recipients to citizenship in say 10 years if they put in the work and stay clean.



Sorry foolish, but I need to pile on here.

You wrote, "...the immigration system needs another, easier avenue for poor folks who just want to come here and work."

This is the crux of the problem and until you understand that it is a waste of time to discuss this point.

This country does not need more "poor folk". We need a merit based system that attracts engineers, doctors, physicists, etc. who will make a difference.

Need more dummies to pick fruit and vegetables, scrub toilets, and make beds? Sorry, importing that labor is a total non-starter.



Your opinion. I disagree. Poor folks are going to want to come here, and we need them. To maintain this outright ban is to try to hold back the tide. Create a program and do it on our terms.

As for engineers/IT etc - Trump is cutting quotas on the visas for those people.


Can't hold back the tide, better make it on our terms, or we get it on their terms.

That's fucking sick and pitiful, lol.

America and Americans WILL NOT say no to illiterate, diseased, criminal break-in bums. THEY own America too, and we'd better just make the best of it.

When I quoted Lezbean Graham you weren't supposed to simply agree with her publicly and excitedly. The quote was actually for disgust value.

NYRfan
legend
Posts 35742
01-15-18 06:16 PM - Post#1709052    

  • Pete Said:
Are you conflating Visas and immigration? I'm strictly talking about immigration. I believe Trump has consistently called on the program to be merit based. "Poor", "non-english speaking", "unskilled" need not apply.


Lmao... their new line is "America belongs to them", and they are proud to say it in front of everyone.

Literally no more dignity, honesty, or logic in this discussion. Just infantile demands and the complete denial of all adult thought or issues.

You disagree ? You're a nazi and nazi's need to be punched.

That's literally the prevailing dem-lib outlook.

PuckRogue
moderator
Posts 37325
PuckRogue
01-15-18 09:22 PM - Post#1709068    

  • foolish Said:
  • PuckRogue Said:
  • foolish Said:
  • PuckRogue Said:
  • foolish Said:
  • PuckRogue Said:
  • foolish Said:
Are you kidding? You have to be kidding. That makes him a bad hombre? Also, are you moving the goalposts, or did I misunderstand your challenge. That dude had no criminal record, wasn't that your criteria?



Is it a criminal offense to miss a court date while you're petitioning for citizenship? No.

Is it grounds for dismissing your opportunity to continue to petition for citizenship? Yes.

This isn't a "we've hunted him down and are going to send him back", this is "we sent him a letter letting him know that he fucked up and has to go, now"

-PR



You wanted me to present cases for you to shoot down. My thesis being that there are "innocent" people being deported, yours being that they are all "bad hombres" at the core.

If the illegal entry itself is enough to, in your eyes, meet the "bad hombre" criteria, then ok... this was a pointless endevor. The quoted story involved the deportation of a guy who apparently did nothing wrong expect in relation to his entry and residence here. I don't know what else to say.

JU - I agree, it does sound fishy, too bad we're denying dur process under this adminastration, huh? Guess we'll never know for sure....




No. What I said, or had hoped to insinuate (I didn’t bother to go back and see), was that ICE was only targeting people with criminal histories. The story you posted has nothing to do with ICE. The story you posted is about someone living in the US illegally who was doing the partially right thing, trying to work through the citizenship process while already being in the country (which would be allowed in how many other countries around the world?) and he fucked up and missed a court date, thus torpedoing his own chances at attaining his citizenship with his own lack of responsibility. Somehow that’s Trump’s fault? Are you really making excuses for this guy? He’s here illegally. Period. They gave him an opportunity to fix that. He fucked it up. Now he’s been informed that he’s got to go.

If you have a court date for something you did wrong, and decide to just miss said court date, you’re subject to fines and possible incarceration. What should this guy’s punishment be? Just another chance because a writer who maybe spent 15 minutes with him on the phone says he’s a swell guy?

-PR




You said
"Link? Every single story I’ve read (or had to do research on) had some kind of criminal element to it."

If you are contending that his "illegal element" was skipping the meeting regarding his illegal entry, then ya, you're right. I though you were implying that every single person ICE is rounding up is guilty of something detrimental to our society. Some sort of additional criminality unrelated to the crossing of the border.

My point is that, end of the day, a lot of these people are a net positive to this country. They shouldn't be rounded up and tossed 10-15 years after coming here , when they've done nothing but good (seemingly).




I’ll reiterate my previous post...

This isn’t an ICE situation. ICE has been actively pursuing and seeking out illegal aliens with criminal histories. This person is not that.

This is a “since you missed your court date, you got a letter saying that you need to leave”.

No, I don’t think this situation is one where he is a criminal. I think this is a situation where, if you don’t show up for your third day of work, you’re going to get fired. Pretty black-and-white.

Like you, I am 100% sure that he would be a “net gain” for the US...but there are thousands of people who seek citizenship every year who don’t sneak in first, don’t miss their fucking court dates and can also provide a net gain for the US.

-PR



PR - so basically if you are here illegally you are a bad hombre according to you. FUck you kids that now lose dad, or your employees that lose jobs, if you snuck in 30 years ago, you need to go. thats a hard line.



Are you trolling me?

That’s not what I said in the slightest bit. Seriously...

-PR

PuckRogue
moderator
Posts 37325
PuckRogue
01-15-18 09:32 PM - Post#1709069    

If you snuck into France, started working and being an honest citizen and asked for citizenship, to which they replied “fill out this paperwork then show up to court on this date”, then missed said court date - would you just assume that they’d give you another chance?

-PR

NYRfan
legend
Posts 35742
01-15-18 10:17 PM - Post#1709073    

Lol, foolenhiemer would miss his second day of work, and scream "YOU DICKS !!!" When they fire him.

Either he's just being an annoying, aggravating, inane, insipid troll, or he really believes this sort of thinking.

The former is bad enough doggie crapola. But the latter is just embarrassing.

If the latter, yes, they are not even slightly embarrassed anymore to embrace zero personal responsibility and absolute hate for any authority or rules. Not embarrassed to publicly show their love for the childish fairy tales of socialism and communism. Not embarrassed to embrace the anarchy and violence of cop-killing BLM. Will hate Trump to the bitter end, even if he brings prosperity and peace, just because they didn't get their way 8 years prior.

If somebody kills Trump, they will laugh and dance and chortle "hahahaha", unlike all of America's grief for JFK, whether they liked his politics or not.

I am really sick of this filthy, festering, pus-filled boil on the ass of America. These people are disgusting and full of all the worst traits of humanity.

And nope, I don't hate you foolish. You're probably an OK guy and horribly misguided. You should figure out who is misguiding you, and lose them forever.

foolish
superstar
Posts 3748
foolish
01-15-18 11:02 PM - Post#1709076    

Thanks for another pointless rant.
PuckRogue
moderator
Posts 37325
PuckRogue
01-15-18 11:17 PM - Post#1709081    

He has pointed rants?

-PR

foolish
superstar
Posts 3748
foolish
01-15-18 11:35 PM - Post#1709085    

Do beagles drive sports cars?
Kanrok
legend
Posts 22318
Kanrok
01-16-18 06:57 AM - Post#1709087    

  • foolish Said:
Do beagles drive sports cars?



Nah.

Only sedans.


“The greatest thing we can do just unite and love on each other and like, no barriers, no borders, like, we all need to just co-exist.”

- K. Perry

Beagle
hall of famer
Posts 7863
Beagle
01-16-18 07:09 AM - Post#1709089    

  • foolish Said:
Do beagles drive sports cars?

No

PuckRogue
moderator
Posts 37325
PuckRogue
01-16-18 07:43 AM - Post#1709090    

HA!

-PR

NYRfan
legend
Posts 35742
01-16-18 10:21 AM - Post#1709098    

lol, foolenheimer, I love it when you take a nasty reaming and you just sniff "oh how pointless" or grunt "your dum".

It's all good. Just don't expect too much brotherly guidance for your never-fail "I'm for whatever is against America", from people who actually served America. Compounded by "not from America".

It's a tough combo of things.

And yes, I always have pointed pants.

Kanrok
legend
Posts 22318
Kanrok
01-16-18 11:46 AM - Post#1709102    

I appreciate Trump’s blunt approach for a very good reason.

The far left is here to teach us what is right and what is wrong.

For them, what is right is whatever they deem correct, usually to gain votes.

If anyone happens to stumble upon the truth, say, for instance, that undocumented immigrants commit more crime per capita than documented immigrants, or that blacks commit more violent crime, or that abortion is wrong, or that you can’t just wake up one day and pronounce yourself a different gender, or species, or phylum for that matter, you are automatically denounced as “racist, sexist, homophobic, transphobic, islamophobic, phylumphobic,” and on and on. (See, e.g., Hilary’s deplorable rant.) Just look at what the far left does when, God forbid, a conservative speaker dares to schedule a talk at a UNIVERSITY.

Along comes Donald J. Trump and, like a bull in a China shop, runs around saying things that gets the left into a tizzie. They don’t know what to do with him. Should they virtue signal? Should they clutch their pearls? Should they wag their finger at him? Should they scream and swear and call him all kinds of names?

None of it works on him, and that drives the left nuts.

It is fun to watch.
“The greatest thing we can do just unite and love on each other and like, no barriers, no borders, like, we all need to just co-exist.”

- K. Perry

foolish
superstar
Posts 3748
foolish
01-16-18 02:40 PM - Post#1709115    

So you appreciate trump for all the nonsense that has nothing to do with running the country?
Kanrok
legend
Posts 22318
Kanrok
01-16-18 02:57 PM - Post#1709117    

  • foolish Said:
So you appreciate trump for all the nonsense that has nothing to do with running the country?



I appreciate that he makes the far left nut bags look like, well...nut bags.

He manages to do that and run the country at the same time.

Win-win.
“The greatest thing we can do just unite and love on each other and like, no barriers, no borders, like, we all need to just co-exist.”

- K. Perry

Pete
legend
Posts 10867
Pete
01-16-18 05:20 PM - Post#1709126    

  • foolish Said:
So you appreciate trump for all the nonsense that has nothing to do with running the country?



I'll leave this right here for you and all others to go and peruse. The "Big Ugly"!!!!

https://theconservativetr eehouse.com/2017/12/23/a-...
foolish
superstar
Posts 3748
foolish
01-16-18 05:40 PM - Post#1709127    

That's funny. It totally misses the GOP portion of the Steele dossier funding. Color me shocked.
NYRfan
legend
Posts 35742
01-16-18 05:49 PM - Post#1709128    

You're still having trouble remembering that the GOP hates Trump just as much as the dems do ? And that they are also knee deep in the very large dem-DNC-Clinton-Obama criminal enterprise that's being peeled back ? And that neither Trump, his people, or anybody at FC thinks differently ?

I mean please, just try.

Ya know who in the GOP ? Trump haters McCain and Jeb.

You act like somebody else is being disingenuine or misleading.......

NYRfan
legend
Posts 35742
01-16-18 06:02 PM - Post#1709129    

You also "forget" that McCain / Jeb are responsible for about 5% at the beginning of the dossier, and the dems / Clinton campaign / DNC took it and ran the other 95%, all the way to REAL collusion, treason, Logan act violations, and many felonies.

No wait, I'm sure you "didn't know" and are " just shocked" to hear about all of this.

Canucko29
legend
Posts 14034
Canucko29
01-16-18 08:59 PM - Post#1709142    

I was reading today Chuck Schumer, aka the prototypical old left-wing politician, say that Trump can prove he's not a racist by approving DACA. I am really surprised how an old man who presumes to be a strategic player would make such an awful mistake. In my opinion, if this was intentional, he just gave the entire right ammo to argue that the Democrats never intended to negotiate a deal in good faith. And, a lot of his moderate support from the right will go fluttering outside the window. Not a good move. Once again, the reaction by the left-wing establishment is worse than what they are reacting to.

NYRfan
legend
Posts 35742
01-16-18 10:26 PM - Post#1709144    

I'm pretty sure Trump is doing most, if not all, of these pokes and prods with full intent. He sneaks in one of these "outrages" every damn time, in the middle of something else important.

And the dems / libs / media spazz out every time. And typically, it fucks them up some how. It always takes their credibility with the voters down a notch.

Trump's not a genius, but he is a legitimate negotiator and competitor.

His opponents today are so used to cheating and having the deck always stacked in their favor, they're not even competitive. Trump has been doing the real thing for fifty years, guys like Schumer have been cheating in the Obama -Clinton system for the last 30. These dems don't even know how to be in a fair fight anymore, they're easy pickings.

Pete
legend
Posts 10867
Pete
01-17-18 08:49 AM - Post#1709161    

  • foolish Said:
That's funny. It totally misses the GOP portion of the Steele dossier funding. Color me shocked.



If you want to remain 100% partisan between Repubs and Dems be my guest.

The Washington Free Beacon did approach Fusion GPS for opposition research, probably on behalf of the RNC or maybe a specific candidate, but they have confirmed that NONE of the information they received made its way into the Steele dossier. It was based on public sources.

The stuff in the dossier? That's from collusion among the FBI, DoJ and perhaps the CIA working with the UK.

Watch and wait.
foolish
superstar
Posts 3748
foolish
01-17-18 09:06 AM - Post#1709166    

If you read the GPS testimony transcripts you'll get a different sense of things. But if you want to adhere to the teachings of the far right, I understand.

I'm speaking to the sources in the dossier. A bunch is straight from the kremlin..... and you say collusion like it's a bad thing. Credible-ish evidence surfaces that's a potential POTUS may be owned partially or fully by the kremlin and the agencies aren't supposed to work together to investigate? Am I misunderstanding your post? I feel like I must be
Pete
legend
Posts 10867
Pete
01-17-18 01:13 PM - Post#1709181    

  • foolish Said:
If you read the GPS testimony transcripts you'll get a different sense of things. But if you want to adhere to the teachings of the far right, I understand.

I'm speaking to the sources in the dossier. A bunch is straight from the kremlin..... and you say collusion like it's a bad thing. Credible-ish evidence surfaces that's a potential POTUS may be owned partially or fully by the kremlin and the agencies aren't supposed to work together to investigate? Am I misunderstanding your post? I feel like I must be



I already told you above (or in another thread) that I read the LEAKED Fusion-GPS testimony. Guess what? It is self-serving nonsense. Fusion-GPS is lower than low and will go to no ends to discredit their target on behalf of their client. Furthermore, the dossier is a false flag. Even the Clinton team and the DNC are trying to distance themselves from it by suggesting they were duped.

Devin Nunes saw things from unmasking of the Trump Team that had nothing to do with Russia. Absolutely nothing.

The Democrats, with the Washington Post and NY Times firmly behind them, have now attempted to attribute the entire Trump-Russia collusion to five different things. First it was person of interest Carter Page - nothing. Then it was the dossier - nothing. Then it was person of interest George Papadopolous - nothing. On and on.

Note what's happening here:
1. Uranium One deal under investigation - a grand jury is empaneled
2. Clinton Foundation under FBI investigation
3. The Awan Brothers
4. Hillary's server reopened by the FBI
5. Justice Department Inspector General report
6. An EO, signed on December 21, 2017, Blocking the Property of Persons Involved in Serious Human Rights Abuse or Corruption. This will be the focus on human trafficking, among other things

Shit's gonna get real
foolish
superstar
Posts 3748
foolish
01-17-18 03:54 PM - Post#1709188    

  • Pete Said:
  • foolish Said:
If you read the GPS testimony transcripts you'll get a different sense of things. But if you want to adhere to the teachings of the far right, I understand.

I'm speaking to the sources in the dossier. A bunch is straight from the kremlin..... and you say collusion like it's a bad thing. Credible-ish evidence surfaces that's a potential POTUS may be owned partially or fully by the kremlin and the agencies aren't supposed to work together to investigate? Am I misunderstanding your post? I feel like I must be



I already told you above (or in another thread) that I read the LEAKED Fusion-GPS testimony. Guess what? It is self-serving nonsense. Fusion-GPS is lower than low and will go to no ends to discredit their target on behalf of their client. Furthermore, the dossier is a false flag. Even the Clinton team and the DNC are trying to distance themselves from it by suggesting they were duped.

Devin Nunes saw things from unmasking of the Trump Team that had nothing to do with Russia. Absolutely nothing.

The Democrats, with the Washington Post and NY Times firmly behind them, have now attempted to attribute the entire Trump-Russia collusion to five different things. First it was person of interest Carter Page - nothing. Then it was the dossier - nothing. Then it was person of interest George Papadopolous - nothing. On and on.

Note what's happening here:
1. Uranium One deal under investigation - a grand jury is empaneled
2. Clinton Foundation under FBI investigation
3. The Awan Brothers
4. Hillary's server reopened by the FBI
5. Justice Department Inspector General report
6. An EO, signed on December 21, 2017, Blocking the Property of Persons Involved in Serious Human Rights Abuse or Corruption. This will be the focus on human trafficking, among other things

Shit's gonna get real



I think the guys behind GPS are pretty credible. ..... I'll look again though. Aren't they from the New York Times?

Once you pull uranium one you lose my interest. Proce to me that HRC was even aware of this non-story and I'll get interested again
Pete
legend
Posts 10867
Pete
01-17-18 05:25 PM - Post#1709192    

The Fusion-GPS guys were formerly with the Wall Street Journal. That means nothing.

The Uranium One investigation may or may not prove the Clinton's involvement. Only know that there were indictments at the time related to uranium rights in general that went undisclosed at the time. Sure it's circumstantial. but why didn't the FBI, as was their duty, make the oversight committee aware of this fact? Maybe it would have thrown a wrench in the works? Hmmm. Who was head of the FBI at the time? Why, Mueller of course. Another, hmmm.
foolish
superstar
Posts 3748
foolish
01-17-18 05:37 PM - Post#1709193    

Then WALL STREET JOURNAL means nothing!?! May I ask your most reputable sources?

As for uranium one...... here is what I know. It's a Canadian company that can mine but not transport uranium. The state dept under HRC along with 9 other agencies approved the sale of the xompany. There is zero evidence that HRC made the call herself. This is what is called fishing
Kanrok
legend
Posts 22318
Kanrok
01-17-18 05:40 PM - Post#1709196    

If it involves the Clinton’s I think you meant “fisting.”
“The greatest thing we can do just unite and love on each other and like, no barriers, no borders, like, we all need to just co-exist.”

- K. Perry

Kanrok
legend
Posts 22318
Kanrok
01-17-18 05:43 PM - Post#1709197    

Just because the Fusion GPS people used to work at the WALL STREET JOURNAL means exactly dick about whether they are credible.

You are employing the logical fallacy entitled “argument from authority.”

“The greatest thing we can do just unite and love on each other and like, no barriers, no borders, like, we all need to just co-exist.”

- K. Perry

NYRfan
legend
Posts 35742
01-17-18 05:45 PM - Post#1709199    

There's no way an intelligent, mentally healthy person still embraces the dossier thing.

The media as of today is now claiming that the Russians deliberately spoofed the FBI to make them look bad. That's how they're gonna try to escape from the fraud, collusion, RICO, Logan Act, treason indictments.

Yeah, the whole fraud is being bailed out on by the fraudsters.... but some schmoes are still running around swearing it's all true.

That's terribly sad.

Kanrok
legend
Posts 22318
Kanrok
01-17-18 07:28 PM - Post#1709202    

I am interested in whether the G used the Fusion document to apply for a FISA warrant.

That might be fun to track down.

Didn’t everyone scoff when Trump said he was being wiretapped?
“The greatest thing we can do just unite and love on each other and like, no barriers, no borders, like, we all need to just co-exist.”

- K. Perry

foolish
superstar
Posts 3748
foolish
01-17-18 08:22 PM - Post#1709206    

  • Kanrok Said:
Just because the Fusion GPS people used to work at the WALL STREET JOURNAL means exactly dick about whether they are credible.

You are employing the logical fallacy entitled “argument from authority.”





It implies a history of credibility. Whether they remain credible is TBD, but it shows a pattern of past behavior, counselor.

You have to put that logic text book of yours away.
Kanrok
legend
Posts 22318
Kanrok
01-17-18 08:26 PM - Post#1709207    

  • foolish Said:
  • Kanrok Said:
Just because the Fusion GPS people used to work at the WALL STREET JOURNAL means exactly dick about whether they are credible.

You are employing the logical fallacy entitled “argument from authority.”





It implies a history of credibility. Whether they remain credible is TBD, but it shows a pattern of past behavior, counselor.

You have to put that logic text book of yours away.



It implies nothing of the sort.

Yes, we must ignore logic.

If we are of the “progressive” persuasion.
“The greatest thing we can do just unite and love on each other and like, no barriers, no borders, like, we all need to just co-exist.”

- K. Perry

foolish
superstar
Posts 3748
foolish
01-17-18 09:24 PM - Post#1709212    

  • Kanrok Said:
  • foolish Said:
  • Kanrok Said:
Just because the Fusion GPS people used to work at the WALL STREET JOURNAL means exactly dick about whether they are credible.

You are employing the logical fallacy entitled “argument from authority.”





It implies a history of credibility. Whether they remain credible is TBD, but it shows a pattern of past behavior, counselor.

You have to put that logic text book of yours away.



It implies nothing of the sort.

Yes, we must ignore logic.

If we are of the “progressive” persuasion.




Is that an ad hominum attack?
Kanrok
legend
Posts 22318
Kanrok
01-17-18 09:54 PM - Post#1709214    

  • foolish Said:
  • Kanrok Said:
  • foolish Said:
  • Kanrok Said:
Just because the Fusion GPS people used to work at the WALL STREET JOURNAL means exactly dick about whether they are credible.

You are employing the logical fallacy entitled “argument from authority.”





It implies a history of credibility. Whether they remain credible is TBD, but it shows a pattern of past behavior, counselor.

You have to put that logic text book of yours away.



It implies nothing of the sort.

Yes, we must ignore logic.

If we are of the “progressive” persuasion.




Is that an ad hominum attack?



Not if it’s true!
“The greatest thing we can do just unite and love on each other and like, no barriers, no borders, like, we all need to just co-exist.”

- K. Perry

foolish
superstar
Posts 3748
foolish
01-17-18 10:50 PM - Post#1709215    

  • Kanrok Said:
  • foolish Said:
  • Kanrok Said:
  • foolish Said:
  • Kanrok Said:
Just because the Fusion GPS people used to work at the WALL STREET JOURNAL means exactly dick about whether they are credible.

You are employing the logical fallacy entitled “argument from authority.”





It implies a history of credibility. Whether they remain credible is TBD, but it shows a pattern of past behavior, counselor.

You have to put that logic text book of yours away.



It implies nothing of the sort.

Yes, we must ignore logic.

If we are of the “progressive” persuasion.




Is that an ad hominum attack?



Not if it’s true!




You're a lawyer, you don't know from truth
Kanrok
legend
Posts 22318
Kanrok
01-18-18 12:18 AM - Post#1709218    

  • foolish Said:
  • Kanrok Said:
  • foolish Said:
  • Kanrok Said:
  • foolish Said:
  • Kanrok Said:
Just because the Fusion GPS people used to work at the WALL STREET JOURNAL means exactly dick about whether they are credible.

You are employing the logical fallacy entitled “argument from authority.”





It implies a history of credibility. Whether they remain credible is TBD, but it shows a pattern of past behavior, counselor.

You have to put that logic text book of yours away.



It implies nothing of the sort.

Yes, we must ignore logic.

If we are of the “progressive” persuasion.




Is that an ad hominum attack?



Not if it’s true!




You're a lawyer, you don't know from truth



Your language is very hurtful.

Sniff.
“The greatest thing we can do just unite and love on each other and like, no barriers, no borders, like, we all need to just co-exist.”

- K. Perry

Pete
legend
Posts 10867
Pete
01-18-18 08:04 AM - Post#1709223    

  • foolish Said:
Then WALL STREET JOURNAL means nothing!?! May I ask your most reputable sources?

As for uranium one...... here is what I know. It's a Canadian company that can mine but not transport uranium. The state dept under HRC along with 9 other agencies approved the sale of the xompany. There is zero evidence that HRC made the call herself. This is what is called fishing



Reading is fundamental. The fact that two scumbags are former Wall Street Journal journalists means nothing to me. It's the people, not the publication. eg. Ssntonio Holmes is a former member of the Pittsburgh Steelers. They have a sterling reputation. Meanwhile, he is a scumbag. See how it works.

As for Uranium One, why don't we just wait and see since there is a grand jury empaneled.
Pete
legend
Posts 10867
Pete
01-18-18 08:07 AM - Post#1709224    

  • Kanrok Said:
I am interested in whether the G used the Fusion document to apply for a FISA warrant.

That might be fun to track down.

Didn’t everyone scoff when Trump said he was being wiretapped?



kan - Go the the website I posted. There is ample information there to tickle your fancy. It's all out there if you are interested.
Kanrok
legend
Posts 22318
Kanrok
01-18-18 08:53 AM - Post#1709225    

  • Pete Said:
  • foolish Said:
Then WALL STREET JOURNAL means nothing!?! May I ask your most reputable sources?

As for uranium one...... here is what I know. It's a Canadian company that can mine but not transport uranium. The state dept under HRC along with 9 other agencies approved the sale of the xompany. There is zero evidence that HRC made the call herself. This is what is called fishing



Reading is fundamental. The fact that two scumbags are former Wall Street Journal journalists means nothing to me. It's the people, not the publication. eg. Ssntonio Holmes is a former member of the Pittsburgh Steelers. They have a sterling reputation. Meanwhile, he is a scumbag. See how it works.

As for Uranium One, why don't we just wait and see since there is a grand jury empaneled.



But...but...but...Peeeeeeete!

It’s the WALL STREET JOURNAL!

ROFL.
“The greatest thing we can do just unite and love on each other and like, no barriers, no borders, like, we all need to just co-exist.”

- K. Perry

NYRfan
legend
Posts 35742
01-18-18 11:18 AM - Post#1709229    

There are really still people who swear -

-Trump wasn't wiretapped (insert word / mental gymnastics here)

-The dossier is true (can't even think a joke for that)

-Russia Russia Russia is real

-Uranium 1 / Clinton Foundation / Benghazi / Fast & Furious / Seth Rich / Rigging the 2016 dem primary / rigging the 2016 pres election (and still lost some how) / FISA cheats and unmasking / Obama-Clinton weaponizing FBI / CIA / NSA / IRS / EPA / DOJ / AG .......... never really happened, just shut up about it.

There are literally a shit ton of liberals who believe these things. It's so filthy, there's really no jokes or discussion left to deal with it.

As I said, it's like the supporters of Hitler, Mugabe, Mao, Castro, Maduro.... blind and insane. There's really no place left for these people in America, but they can thank their lucky stars for the US Constitution. They can in fact pollute daily life and the internet, unabated.


Print Topic

FusionBB™ Version 3.2 | ©2003-2018 InteractivePHP, Inc.
Execution time: 0.313 seconds.   Total Queries: 354   Zlib Compression is on.
All times are (GMT-5). Current time is 06:04 AM
Top