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Username Post: Trump Towers Subject To Electronic Surveillance Before Election        (Topic#548795)
Kanrok
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03-04-17 03:20 PM - Post#1694786    



I thought it might be better to have a dedicated thread to this issue.

A few thoughts on this:

1. It's a big deal for electronic surveillance to be directed towards a presidential candidate.

2. The procedure for getting a wiretap (presumably under FISA in this case) requires a warrant. A warrant requires probable cause.

3. According to reports there was an application for a wiretap of Trump Tower back in June, 2016 which was rejected by the court, apparently for being too broad. That is significant for one important reason. In fiscal 2015 there were 1457 applications for electronic surveillance in FISA court, and none were rejected. https://www.justice.gov/nsd/nsd-foia-library/ 2015f...

That signals to me that, although FISA court is set up as oversight of the intelligence community, it appears that the court is basically a rubber stamp. The fact that they rejected the initial warrant in the summer of 2016 means that there was either serious problems with the application, and/or a judge actually took his or her job seriously on that occasion.

4. According to reports, a second less broad application for a wire at Trump Tower was granted by the FISA court. I would expect that whomever the judge was, he or she was very careful in reviewing the second application before granting it. What that means is that there had to have been some reason to grant it. Meaning, there had to be a showing that there was probable cause to believe something pretty major was going on, perhaps espionage.

5. As far as I can tell, the president does not have the authority to legally order that an application be presented to the court.

All in all, it is a huge story, but potentially not for the reasons Trump thinks. Then again, it might be!

Get the popcorn ready and buckle in.
If you believe what you like in the Gospels, and reject what you don't like, it is not the Gospel you believe, but yourself. - St. Augustine


 
Baldridge
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03-04-17 03:39 PM - Post#1694788    


    In response to Kanrok

Why does the most powerful man in the world spell tap with two P's?...

That is concerning, imo.....
"I can't prove any of it"-NYRfan


 
PuckRogue
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03-04-17 03:57 PM - Post#1694790    


    In response to Baldridge

  • Baldridge Said:
Why does the most powerful man in the world spell tap with two P's?...

That is concerning, imo.....



This is literally the kinds of responses I see from the left when it comes to serious issues like this.

Then it's something about his hair and then something about his wife having been naked.

I get that there are legit concerns about Trump (though I personally disagree with most of them), but the commentary of lefty dumbshits just undermines their arguments.

I get that you were kidding, Baldy.

-PR


 
Baldridge
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03-04-17 04:49 PM - Post#1694797    


    In response to PuckRogue

If there is legit proof that Trump Tower was wire tapped, I have a problem with it. That's a no brainer.....

I dispise my company taping us in our trucks. It's illegal..
"I can't prove any of it"-NYRfan


 
Kanrok
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03-04-17 06:18 PM - Post#1694817    


    In response to Baldridge

If there were probable cause for the warrant, I don't have a problem with it.

Something of this magnitude had to have gone up the chain of command at the DOJ, meaning it had to have been approved by the AG.

What interests me is how the warrant got approved.

The FISA court is set up so that a FISA judge reviews the warrant application. If that judge denies the warrant (an extremely rare occurrence) then the investigator has the option of curing the alleged deficiencies (with the same judge) or appealing it to a three judge FISA panel.

Here multiple reports confirmed that the original application was denied. I'd like to know which route the investigators used after that.
If you believe what you like in the Gospels, and reject what you don't like, it is not the Gospel you believe, but yourself. - St. Augustine


 
irish_66
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03-04-17 07:07 PM - Post#1694818    


    In response to Kanrok

Just curious , will he provide proof of the allegation? Something as serious as this, he cant just tweet it and not follow with proof. If true, worst scandal ever.
Gretzky to Hextall after Hexy stoned him on a breakaway in Hexy's first game:"Who the hell are you?"
Hextall's response:"Who the hell are you?"


 
NYRfan
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03-04-17 07:19 PM - Post#1694820    


    In response to irish_66

Lol, like this whole Trump-Russia thing, for which there is absolutely no proof whatsoever ?

This is the thing I told you guys about, a good week ago.

Directly in the middle of the election. Tapping Trump and staff.

If there was anything to even be looking for, they would have made it into a bigger story than the current bullshit.

Obama's got his own Russia crimes now. Wanna bet the MSM acts like they never hear it, no matter what comes out ?

Gonna be funny as hell watching them avoid the Obama story like the plague, after literally inventing and screaming the Trump story from the rooftops.

dems and MSM out of business for 100 years after this.


 
irish_66
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03-04-17 07:30 PM - Post#1694821    


    In response to NYRfan

Kan, as several GOP senators have stated today, cant the president ask for the FISA application be made public-or at least to the Senate? A simple process that would put this rest as either Obama did this or Trump is for whatever reason making this up? If you tweet this, proof must come after if it is that simple to prove.
Gretzky to Hextall after Hexy stoned him on a breakaway in Hexy's first game:"Who the hell are you?"
Hextall's response:"Who the hell are you?"


 
NYRfan
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03-04-17 07:44 PM - Post#1694822    


    In response to irish_66

The more of this shit that comes out, the more obvious it is that they thought they would own the DOJ, AG, FBI, IRS indefinitely, and could do any damned crime they desired.

I predict the Obamas and Clintons, Holder Lynch Jarrett, somehow ending up in Europe, living on the dime of fawning socialists. This will be fukkin funny.


 
Kanrok
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03-04-17 08:01 PM - Post#1694823    


    In response to irish_66

  • irish_66 Said:
Kan, as several GOP senators have stated today, cant the president ask for the FISA application be made public-or at least to the Senate? A simple process that would put this rest as either Obama did this or Trump is for whatever reason making this up? If you tweet this, proof must come after if it is that simple to prove.



I'm not familiar with the way FISA applications become declassified. But my best guess is that it probably could be declassified, and at the very least released to the proper sub-committee.

I do not believe the application would provide proof that Obama, for instance, requested that they apply to FISA to spy on Trump. I can't provide chapter and verse, but I am fairly certain that it is illegal for the president to get involved officially in these kinds of investigations.

I cannot believe, though, that an application for electronic eavesdropping of this magnitude would not go up the chain to the AG. So, if there is some connection between Obama and this application, it would have to be connected indirectly.

From what I'm reading from various sources, there is no question that there were two applications, one was denied, and the other granted.

That being the case, it leads to some interesting questions.

I heard it said that in DC you are either on offense or defense.
If you believe what you like in the Gospels, and reject what you don't like, it is not the Gospel you believe, but yourself. - St. Augustine


 
Kanrok
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03-04-17 08:12 PM - Post#1694824    


    In response to Kanrok

Here is an interesting article written by a lawyer who, unlike me, if familiar with all the arcane FISA rules:

http://lawnewz.com/high-profile/yes-obam a-could-be...

Ignore the implications of the title, the information is solid.
If you believe what you like in the Gospels, and reject what you don't like, it is not the Gospel you believe, but yourself. - St. Augustine


 
PuckRogue
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03-04-17 08:26 PM - Post#1694825    


    In response to Kanrok

1. If they were truly worried that Trump was colluding with Russia, wouldn't this measure make sense?

2. You mentioned offensive or defensive - who "wins" if there is something to Trump/Russia AND there is something to Obama tapping his lines?

-PR


 
Kanrok
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03-04-17 08:54 PM - Post#1694828    


    In response to PuckRogue

Yes, it would make sense.

That's why I don't think it's automatically horrible.

The point about offense/defense is that Trump seems to me a master at deflection when things start to look grim.

This tweet of his managed to turn the momentum away from the dems back to him.

But this might have some legs.
If you believe what you like in the Gospels, and reject what you don't like, it is not the Gospel you believe, but yourself. - St. Augustine


 
NYRfan
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03-04-17 09:07 PM - Post#1694829    


    In response to Kanrok

Given the fact that there is no known evidence for the mountain of dem accusations, and there appears to be a nice little growing pile of evidence against many dems.....it does look grim, for Obama & co.

I predict that we will find a virtual frame-up of Flynn, Sessions, Trump, going back to the wire taps.

Levin described this step by step scam weeks ago.

Falsified apps / wire taps, saved the tapes illegally, changed policy to help with leaks, still leaked illegally beyond that, kept a network of holdovers in FBI, CIA, State to spread and leak data, created a network in the MSM just to report it all.

Makes watergate look like a fruit fly on baldy's ass.

Keep your head on a swivel if this thing takes off. You'll see mega violence from Obama's "army". Berkeley on steroids.


 
PuckRogue
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03-05-17 01:03 AM - Post#1694834    


    In response to NYRfan

Correct. There has been zero evidence divulged to facilities guys in TN. That's a fact.

-PR


 
Badlands92
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03-05-17 08:57 AM - Post#1694837    


    In response to irish_66

  • irish_66 Said:
Just curious , will he provide proof of the allegation? Something as serious as this, he cant just tweet it and not follow with proof. If true, worst scandal ever.


I agree with this. Trump whacked the bees nest with that tweet - now there needs to be some evidence presented. Knowing how the govt works, this will drag out into 2022.
The man who passes the sentence should swing the sword.


 
GOON 21
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03-05-17 09:42 AM - Post#1694839    


    In response to Badlands92

Trump and his team need to bring some more facts to the forefront, no argument from me you say something like this, you better have something concrete to back it up!!


Mark Levin was on FOX sunday morning show and laid out the reasons behind how the wiretapping was done and how the prior adminstration knew (he mocked Obams rebutal how he didnt "authorize" it).. I was cooking breakfast and didnt hear
everything he actually said



The other thing is that shit like this keeps Trump off the rails and the bigger picture. I have said and will ALWAYS say that good policies and results will "Trump" all the white noise, so we need tax reform, a robust market, a immigration reform, etc, etc and shit like this can sidetrack from the bigger picture and what were trying to accomplish as a nation



Carry on.....
 
PuckRogue
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03-05-17 09:47 AM - Post#1694840    


    In response to GOON 21

Like I suggested before - it's really not that scandalous. If there was a legitimate concern that Trump was colluding with Russia, it would have been in the best interest of our intelligence community to keep tabs on it.

If he can (legally) produce proof, then it just winds up being another bullshit surface "looks bad to the sheeple" scandal...in my opinion.

-PR


 
Kanrok
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03-05-17 10:20 AM - Post#1694843    


    In response to PuckRogue



Mark Levin on Fox this morning.

He discusses all of the proof available from news sources.

Actually pretty interesting.

If you believe what you like in the Gospels, and reject what you don't like, it is not the Gospel you believe, but yourself. - St. Augustine


 
HEAVYWEIGHT
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03-05-17 11:10 AM - Post#1694846    


    In response to Kanrok

Trump is IN THE WHITE HOUSE BECAUSE THE DEMOCRAT PARTY IS CROOKED>

Trump was not the ONLY one being wire tapped, any Republican deemed a threat was, JUST like the IRS, just like the the Justice department and FBI not pursuing Crooked.

DRAIN THE SWAMP, I hope Trump puts a few top level democrats in PRISON.


 
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