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Username Post: Ted Cruz Introduces the El Chapo Act        (Topic#549037)
Kanrok
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04-26-17 07:30 PM - Post#1698461    



The G is currently attempting to forfeit $14B in assets from El Chapo and other drug traffickers. Cruz proposes to divert these funds to help pay for Trump's wall.

It is actually a brilliant idea.

http://legalinsurrection.com/2017/04/cruz-introduc ...
“The greatest thing we can do just unite and love on each other and like, no barriers, no borders, like, we all need to just co-exist.”

- K. Perry


 
foolish
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04-26-17 10:23 PM - Post#1698463    


    In response to Kanrok

why would America get $14billion from el chapo? Wouldn't all those assets be in Mexico if they even exist anymore?

Seizing assets from criminals to pay for campaign promises..... brilliant. Much smarter than helping the victims of his crimes.
 
Johnny_Upton
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04-27-17 06:28 AM - Post#1698468    


    In response to foolish

  • foolish Said:
why would America get $14billion from el chapo? Wouldn't all those assets be in Mexico if they even exist anymore?

Seizing assets from criminals to pay for campaign promises..... brilliant. Much smarter than helping the victims of his crimes.



Maybe it's in US banks?

The Gov seizing assets from criminals has a lot of risk for abuse.

Dis somanumbatching country was founded so that the liberties of common patriotic citizens like me could not be taken away by a bunch of fargin iceholes... like yourselves.

#Filthystrong


 
Canucko29
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04-27-17 06:38 AM - Post#1698469    


    In response to foolish

  • foolish Said:

Seizing assets from criminals to pay for campaign promises..... brilliant. Much smarter than helping the victims of his crimes.



Please, elaborate on who you think these "victims" are?


 
Pete
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04-27-17 07:36 AM - Post#1698471    


    In response to Canucko29

  • Canucko29 Said:
  • foolish Said:

Seizing assets from criminals to pay for campaign promises..... brilliant. Much smarter than helping the victims of his crimes.



Please, elaborate on who you think these "victims" are?



Well, El Chapo for one. lol

And while you're at it, foolish, explain how you would distribute the $ to the alleged victims? As if that wouldn't be arbitrary? Once again, "feel good" idea from our resident liberal with absolutely no idea how to actually make such an act work in the real world.
 
Kanrok
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04-27-17 07:59 AM - Post#1698472    


    In response to foolish

  • foolish Said:
why would America get $14billion from el chapo? Wouldn't all those assets be in Mexico if they even exist anymore?

Seizing assets from criminals to pay for campaign promises..... brilliant. Much smarter than helping the victims of his crimes.



I look at it as seizing assets from criminals to make it harder for the criminal enterprise to function.

But, I'm pragmatic.
“The greatest thing we can do just unite and love on each other and like, no barriers, no borders, like, we all need to just co-exist.”

- K. Perry


 
Kanrok
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04-27-17 07:59 AM - Post#1698473    


    In response to Canucko29

  • Canucko29 Said:
  • foolish Said:

Seizing assets from criminals to pay for campaign promises..... brilliant. Much smarter than helping the victims of his crimes.



Please, elaborate on who you think these "victims" are?



Planned Parenthood?
“The greatest thing we can do just unite and love on each other and like, no barriers, no borders, like, we all need to just co-exist.”

- K. Perry


 
PuckRogue
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04-27-17 08:05 AM - Post#1698474    


    In response to Kanrok

Drug abusers? I'm assuming that's who he means. Put it into education, recovery and such.

-PR


 
Kanrok
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04-27-17 08:27 AM - Post#1698476    


    In response to PuckRogue

I consider the average American citizen to be the biggest victim of scumbags like El Chapo.

We have little choice in dealing with the negative effects of his business empire.

For me, job #1 is protecting those who did not participate in making him a multi-billionaire.
“The greatest thing we can do just unite and love on each other and like, no barriers, no borders, like, we all need to just co-exist.”

- K. Perry


 
Canucko29
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04-27-17 09:25 AM - Post#1698479    


    In response to PuckRogue

  • PuckRogue Said:
Drug abusers? I'm assuming that's who he means. Put it into education, recovery and such.

-PR



I mean, you're almost 100% with me on the "war on drugs." We both consider it a failed project. Do you really believe abusers are victims?




Edited by Canucko29 on 04-27-17 09:25 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
 
foolish
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04-27-17 09:47 AM - Post#1698480    


    In response to Johnny_Upton

  • Johnny_Upton Said:
  • foolish Said:
why would America get $14billion from el chapo? Wouldn't all those assets be in Mexico if they even exist anymore?

Seizing assets from criminals to pay for campaign promises..... brilliant. Much smarter than helping the victims of his crimes.



Maybe it's in US banks?

The Gov seizing assets from criminals has a lot of risk for abuse.





Seems like the $14B sum has little basis and is pretty much just the highest estimate. In 2011 Forbes estimated his worth at $1billion, but its dropped off since. If his money is in US banks, I'm pretty sure there are several existing federal asset seizure programs that would come into play......

This bill is just about what the money gets spent on, not the taking of it from what I can tell.
 
PuckRogue
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04-27-17 09:58 AM - Post#1698481    


    In response to Canucko29

  • Canucko29 Said:
  • PuckRogue Said:
Drug abusers? I'm assuming that's who he means. Put it into education, recovery and such.

-PR



I mean, you're almost 100% with me on the "war on drugs." We both consider it a failed project. Do you really believe abusers are victims?



Not at all, but I do believe that foolish might believe that.

-PR


 
foolish
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04-27-17 10:25 AM - Post#1698483    


    In response to Kanrok

  • Kanrok Said:
  • Canucko29 Said:
  • foolish Said:

Seizing assets from criminals to pay for campaign promises..... brilliant. Much smarter than helping the victims of his crimes.



Please, elaborate on who you think these "victims" are?



Planned Parenthood?



I'm thinking there may be some victims of a guy accused of the murder of hundreds. How many orphaned children? How many hospitals didn't get paid to cleanup the mess? I know you strong righties hate the idea of helping the addicts, so focus on the "innocent" victims.

Hell, do what is usually done with seized assets and offset the tax burden of the PDs and put the money in the budget of the agencies fighting the cartels!

The wall is a bullshit campaign slogan, not a solution to anything. This idea lying Ted has is an effort to help make DJT check a box.
 
foolish
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04-27-17 10:27 AM - Post#1698484    


    In response to PuckRogue

  • PuckRogue Said:
  • Canucko29 Said:
  • PuckRogue Said:
Drug abusers? I'm assuming that's who he means. Put it into education, recovery and such.

-PR



I mean, you're almost 100% with me on the "war on drugs." We both consider it a failed project. Do you really believe abusers are victims?



Not at all, but I do believe that foolish might believe that.

-PR



I don't go for black and white answers. I'm for legalizing all drugs and taxing the shit out of them. Then take those taxes and divert large amounts of it to addressing those who find they can't handle drugs productively. Its way to easy to say "fuck all he addicts, its their fault".
 
Pagey
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04-27-17 10:28 AM - Post#1698485    


    In response to Johnny_Upton

  • Johnny_Upton Said:
The Gov seizing assets from criminals has a lot of risk for abuse.





^Definitely this.
“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.”
- Neil deGrasse Tyson


 
Kanrok
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04-27-17 10:42 AM - Post#1698486    


    In response to foolish

  • foolish Said:
  • Kanrok Said:
  • Canucko29 Said:
  • foolish Said:

Seizing assets from criminals to pay for campaign promises..... brilliant. Much smarter than helping the victims of his crimes.



Please, elaborate on who you think these "victims" are?



Planned Parenthood?



I'm thinking there may be some victims of a guy accused of the murder of hundreds. How many orphaned children? How many hospitals didn't get paid to cleanup the mess? I know you strong righties hate the idea of helping the addicts, so focus on the "innocent" victims.

Hell, do what is usually done with seized assets and offset the tax burden of the PDs and put the money in the budget of the agencies fighting the cartels!

The wall is a bullshit campaign slogan, not a solution to anything. This idea lying Ted has is an effort to help make DJT check a box.



Interdiction is a big part of fighting the cartels.

If only Nancy Pelosi had this idea...

Hmm....

“The greatest thing we can do just unite and love on each other and like, no barriers, no borders, like, we all need to just co-exist.”

- K. Perry


 
Kanrok
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04-27-17 10:49 AM - Post#1698487    


    In response to foolish

  • foolish Said:
  • PuckRogue Said:
  • Canucko29 Said:
  • PuckRogue Said:
Drug abusers? I'm assuming that's who he means. Put it into education, recovery and such.

-PR



I mean, you're almost 100% with me on the "war on drugs." We both consider it a failed project. Do you really believe abusers are victims?



Not at all, but I do believe that foolish might believe that.

-PR



I don't go for black and white answers. I'm for legalizing all drugs and taxing the shit out of them. Then take those taxes and divert large amounts of it to addressing those who find they can't handle drugs productively. Its way to easy to say "fuck all he addicts, its their fault".



What percentage of first time drug users become dependent?

And not for nothing, but you first say you "don't go for black and white answers" and immediately thereafter provide a black and white "solution."

Pretty funny stuff!
“The greatest thing we can do just unite and love on each other and like, no barriers, no borders, like, we all need to just co-exist.”

- K. Perry


 
PuckRogue
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04-27-17 11:30 AM - Post#1698488    


    In response to foolish

  • foolish Said:
  • PuckRogue Said:
  • Canucko29 Said:
  • PuckRogue Said:
Drug abusers? I'm assuming that's who he means. Put it into education, recovery and such.

-PR



I mean, you're almost 100% with me on the "war on drugs." We both consider it a failed project. Do you really believe abusers are victims?



Not at all, but I do believe that foolish might believe that.

-PR



I don't go for black and white answers. I'm for legalizing all drugs and taxing the shit out of them. Then take those taxes and divert large amounts of it to addressing those who find they can't handle drugs productively. Its way to easy to say "fuck all he addicts, its their fault".



That I agree with. Many addicts are just mentally ill and become addicted trying to compensate for their mental issues.

Not sure that I'd legalize shit like heroin and meth, but if weed and coke were legal, why would anyone bother with that shit?

-PR


 
foolish
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04-27-17 11:45 AM - Post#1698489    


    In response to Kanrok

  • Kanrok Said:


What percentage of first time drug users become dependent?

And not for nothing, but you first say you "don't go for black and white answers" and immediately thereafter provide a black and white "solution."

Pretty funny stuff!




It's only black and white in the sense of legalize and tax - under which is where the nuance comes. I see your point though. You got me.

I would honestly bet that the 1st time user becoming dependent is exceedingly rare, but I have no idea I'm no expert. I know in my peer group we played with all kinds of stuff, and I know of maybe 2 for whom it became a problem. That said, I'm sure the results are different for demographics that are "mid-class white folk, good families"
 
Canucko29
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04-27-17 11:49 AM - Post#1698490    


    In response to PuckRogue

  • PuckRogue Said:
  • foolish Said:
  • PuckRogue Said:
  • Canucko29 Said:
  • PuckRogue Said:
Drug abusers? I'm assuming that's who he means. Put it into education, recovery and such.

-PR



I mean, you're almost 100% with me on the "war on drugs." We both consider it a failed project. Do you really believe abusers are victims?



Not at all, but I do believe that foolish might believe that.

-PR



I don't go for black and white answers. I'm for legalizing all drugs and taxing the shit out of them. Then take those taxes and divert large amounts of it to addressing those who find they can't handle drugs productively. Its way to easy to say "fuck all he addicts, its their fault".



That I agree with. Many addicts are just mentally ill and become addicted trying to compensate for their mental issues.

Not sure that I'd legalize shit like heroin and meth, but if weed and coke were legal, why would anyone bother with that shit?

-PR




I say legalize it all. Right now in BC, and now the US, we're facing a Fetanyl crisis. My cousin who was/is addicted to heroin said that they were carting off a body at her recovery center just about every other day. It doesn't take much of that shit to kill someone. It may seem morally reprehensible for the government to sell and profit from this garbage, but if it helps, put 80% of the revenues into additions recovery and prevention and putting the cartels out of business.

This, however, will never happen. Some of you guys are stuck in fantasy land on this issue (definitely not you PR). The fact is that many judges, lawyers, cops and politicians are making huge bucks off of the kickbacks, seizure and even, yes, distribution of drugs across the continent. The underground economy is a huge contributor to the REAL US and Canada GDP. How many welfare recipients, for instance, deal drugs? And how many of them would be fucked if it was legalized and the money was put in safer hands?

Fact is that we all know about the true benefits of this economy and choose to do nothing about it because it would require us to restructure the way we police, and the way we distribute welfare services and it would really hit the pockets hard of some pretty powerful people in all three branches of government.

I know that foolish believes that the survivors of the people El Chapo murdered deserve this more than a wall (because he thinks the wall won't work, regardless of what I say), but why should the family of people who often times chose to associate themselves with cartels and got murdered get any more sympathy from me than the average person who lost immediately family to overdoses (such as myself).

Seriously, we really have a wide definition of what is a victim these days.


 
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