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Username Post: NHL Top 20 All-time thread        (Topic#303764)
ILB
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08-09-04 06:35 PM - Post#303764    



I know that this has probably been done a thousand times here on FC, and if I am out of line, Mods please feel free to delete this thread. The question that I am posing to the FC faithful is what does your top 20 all-time fighters list look like? Who do you rate where? And why? I would really like to see a top 20 list from the Vets here, and see what guys they think deserve to be named the top 20 fighters of all time. Here is my list, feel free to criticize:

*** Please note that this list is subject to change. I haven't seen EVERY fight that each guy was in, and in some cases I am relying on reputation.... I'd like to think that this is a pretty accurate list though ***

1) Bob Probert
2) Behn Wilson
3) Dave Brown
4) John Ferguson (Pure rep here... I haven't seen enough but the stories are LEGENDARY. I've really only heard of a couple of losses ever on this guy)
5A) Bob Nystrom and
5B) Clark Gillies (I can't put one guy over the other)
6) Larry Playfair
7) Marty McSorely
8) Nick Fotiu
9) John Wensink
10) Tim Hunter

11 - 20:

11) Dave Semenko
12) Glen Cochrane
13) John Kordic
14) Dan Maloney
15) Tie Domi
16) Chris Nilan
17) Stan Jonathan
18) Craig Berube
19) Dave "The Hammer" Schultz
20) Terry O'Reilly


Coulda, Woulda, Shoulda Contenders:

1) Bob Gassoff - In the short time that this guy played in the NHL he was simply devastating. He would have easily been one of the best of ALL TIME if he hadn't died in a tragic accident. Some might still have him in their top 10 for his sheer dominance when he did fight.

2) Link Gaetz - Had all the talent in the world but was too much of a nut job. The Car accident that he was in didn't help him any either...

3) Troy Crowder - Dominated for a very short period of time. Has a clean victory over Probie in Probie's prime, but of course the champ avenged that loss... if he hadn't been injured and forced out of the league.... who knows?

4) Dave Richter - A 6'5 Lefty with a nasty streak that could really fight. It could be argued that Richter never really lost in his short NHL tenure, but I think he was at least "edged" (I hate using edges) in a couple of fights. He had the size and the mean streak, along with the fighting ability to be one of the best.... he just didn't stick in the show.

5) Mario and Serge Roberge - these 2 minor league legends simply arrived in the NHL at the wrong time. The Habs were full at the enforcer position and couldn't use both of them, (Serge was the better fighter) and they quickly got rid of Mario. Dissapointing because they are legends in the minors.

So there it is... my top 20... what do the folks on FC think?
 
chaser
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08-09-04 06:55 PM - Post#303778    


    In response to ILB

I'll bite. This is based off what I have seen.

1. Probert
2. D. Brown
3. Fotiu
4. Wilson
5. Gillies
6. Kocur(not sure if you forgot him or what, Boobs?)
7. O'Reily
8. Playfair
9. McSorley
10. Nystrom
11. Jonathan
12. Richter
13. Miller
14. Domi
15. Cochrane
16. Wensink
17. Hunter
18. Semenko
19. J. Kordic
20. Howatt

Honorable Mention:

Berube
Grimson
Twist
Nilan
Williams
Shultz
Bridgeman
Holmgren
Cashman

I have not seen enough(I don't think anyone really has) of Gassoff, Ferguson, Dan Maloney or Battleship Kelly to give them a spot even though they all could be top 10 guys.
THE ORIGINAL CHASER!!


 
Hike
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08-09-04 07:46 PM - Post#303795    


    In response to chaser

1. Wilson - The total package. He had all the tools. Big, strong, great technical skills, and power. Put that together with his mean disposition and you get one helluva fighter. One knock on Wilson - he was a bit of a selfish fighter and usually fought for himself and not to defend his teammates.

2. Probert - What can you say. His record for longevity as a top notch heavyweight just ain't likely to be matched. Kept trying to the bitter end. Another guy that had all the tools and used them. If there is any knock on Probert it may be his punching power. While it wasn't bad, imagine what he'd have been like with the KO power of a Kocur.

3. Fotiu - He made an immediate impact by beating Holmgren and then Wilson. Brought instant respectibility to a franchise that had previously had none. The one knock of Fotiu is that he had a very long fuse and rarely instigated trouble.

4. Brown - As big and bad as they came. Not one of my personal favorites as I always considered him a bit of a cheap fighter. Liked to get the jump, used that spandex sleeve, and liked to throw a few after the break. As much as I hated the guy, I still rank him number 4, that's how good he was LOL.

5. Gillies - When people mention hardest hitters they usually think Twist and Kocur. When I think hardest hitters, I think Gillies and Playfair (along with Twist and Kocur). No one dropped Stan Jonathan, yet Gillies did it with one well placed right. The knock, and it's big one, you never knew which Gillies you were getting. But if you ended up with the pissed off, motivated Gillies, you could be in some big trouble.

6. Playfair - Big and strong. The guy was a horse. Looked like he really enjoyed fighting, and just wanted to throw them. He took a few to give a few, and you gotta love that. Was also a great defenseman and could throw a mean check. The knock on Playfair would be that he often led with his face and was a very easy target to hit. He didn't duck too many punches. They used to call him Racoon because his eyes were always blackened.

7. Cochrane - The run was short, but damn lively. A real maniac with a huge meanstreak. Didn't lose very many during a 3 to 4 year span. Bad knees and a bad back eventually took its toll and shortened his career.

8. McSorley - One of my personal favorites. Man, he just kept going and going and going. Another guy that seemed to lack a little power, but no one was more willing than Marty.

9. Kocur - His power alone gets him in my top 10. I find him alot less impressive than others do, but fear and intimidation gets him high marks. High enough to get him in my top 10.

10. Nystrom - Not too many losses on a Nystrom card. Wins over Fotiu and Wensink ensure him a top 10 position. Threw them fast and furious. Lacked a little power which hurts him in these rankings. Imagine a fighter with Gillies power and Nystroms fury and you'd have yourself one heck of an enforcer.

11. Dave Semenko
12. Stan Jonathan
13. Paul Holmgren
14. Tim Hunter
15. John Wensink
16. Dan Maloney
17. Stu Grimson
18. Tie Domi
19. Terry O'Reilly
20. Jay Miller
When you have bacon and eggs for breakfast, the chicken makes a contribution, but the pig makes a committment


 
Posux
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08-09-04 08:05 PM - Post#303801    


    In response to Hike

I'll put my top twenty up later...(have to find it), but what's with the hard on for Richter?


 
Badduke14
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08-09-04 08:46 PM - Post#303821    


    In response to Posux

I can't believe Brashear isn't in the top 5 alltime! Well, maybe I can believe it, but it's because people don't like him. The guy has been kickin' ass since 97-98, & has only a handful of losses. Love him or hate him nobody has been as dominant as Brashear, with as little respect as him. A couple of people have O'Reilly & Schultz over Brasehar? Ok, personal opinion fair enough, but Brashear has also beaten Domi more times than anyone, & has more losses than Brashear, yet Domi is higher on the list? It's not fair to compare eras but Schultz would get KO'd if he tangled with Brashear. (my opinion) Twist over Brashear? Not a chance...Too many guys left off of Twist's card for him to be a top 10er, (again, my opinion). Guys like Probert, Brown, Wilson, Gillies...true heavys in any era. Guys like Jonathan, Nystrom, Semenko & Playfair super tough, but limited footage of them in their prime. Richter was tough, but there are a lot of players he didn't fight. Hunter is a top 5 guy, along with McSorley. I believe Brashear led the league in majors in 97-98 & he did lead the league in pims with 372. Sure he's fought less as his career went on, but when he fought, he's won 98% of the time. If his style "sucks" then why can't someone beat him at it? Like I said, the main reason he isn't on someone's list, is because of who he is, & because he didn't play in the East during his prime which was 97-98-00-01.
David Jesiolowski: Likeable balding WHL gonk. (Napes)


 
Tommy_The_Bull
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08-09-04 09:14 PM - Post#303837    


    In response to ILB

Doggone it boobs! I am off to an overtime shift and will not post until breakfast...

I'll start a list:
Probert
Gillies
Ferguson
Wilson
Kocur
Brown
Playfair
Semenko
McSorley
Domi
many others in many differant orders -- that was mine tonight -- could change in an hour... lol.
 
Duster
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08-09-04 09:48 PM - Post#303859    


    In response to Tommy_The_Bull

cans. reading between the lines, i think your thread is intuitive given the fact that it appears you are more interested in the vets response on why/how they put their top 20 together rather than who actually makes up their top 20. great read. pat yourself on the back for this one....

out.

duster.
 
chaser
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08-09-04 10:06 PM - Post#303873    


    In response to Badduke14

Duke, you make some valid points but you also didn't post your list.. I'm curious to see your top 20.. Maybe in the future people will have Brash in the top 10/20 but to say at this time he is top 5 is IMHO ridiculous. Who are you leaving out of the top 5 if you have Brash in it?
THE ORIGINAL CHASER!!


 
Badduke14
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08-10-04 01:45 AM - Post#303934    


    In response to chaser

How is that ridiculous? Brashear has been in the NHL since 93-94, & basically a full timer since 95-96. That's 9 years + 34 games between 93-95. Who else does the guy have to fight to get recognition? He has more than triple the fight card a Fotiu or Wilson & has more wins than the two combined. People still rank Brashear for his 1st couple of seasons in Montreal. Starting in 97-98 name 1 fighter who has dominated as much with as few losses as Brashear? What's ridiculous is people's lists with players such as Ferguson, Gassoff, Maloney or Kurtenbach, guys who have a combine video capibility of no more than 10 fights combined. How can anyone honestly rank a player who has 3 fights available? (ex: Gassoff), compared to a guy who has over 100 fights or whatever Brashear has, available against pretty much every tough guy who we have seen fight other tough guys for comparison? Not to pick on Gassoff, cuz I used to live in his hometown of Quesnel, but how can anyone rank Gassoff honestly, without him fighting a Fotiu, Bert Wilson, Gillies, Holmgren, Wensink guys who played in his era? What I'm tryin' to say is how can anyone honestly rank a guy with no footage. Brashear HAS fought elite heavyweights, guys 6'4-6'5 220-245 lbs. Schultz was 6'1 195'lbs, that was considered "big", today as enforcer, that's small. That's where comparing eras comes in, & isn't fair. But since this is a "top 20" list, then all eras are considered. Take a guy like Curt Fraser, he was a boxer, & an excellent fighter, but during his Vancouver days, how many fights of his are available? How do we know he wasn't as tough as Fotiu? He probably had as many if not more fights than Fotiu. He had a reputation. He fought Wilson & lost but it was close so he must be top 5. What about Harold Snepsts? He played in the '70s. He fought & beat Schultz 3x in the same game, so he must be top 5. We have just as many prime Snepsts fights with Vancouver as we do of Gassoff, or Ferguson so he must be top 3! What about Tiger Williams with Toronto? He played in the mid 70's & how much footage of him is available? He fought a lot of guys, he beat Wilson, but I'm forgetting one thing, with the exception of Tiger, these guys played on the West Coast, not in Philly, Boston or NY.
David Jesiolowski: Likeable balding WHL gonk. (Napes)


 
chaser
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08-10-04 01:51 AM - Post#303935    


    In response to ILB

Tony, I understand what you are saying. Point taken. I still want to hear your top 10 list. Or even top 5. Who gets pushed out of the top 5 to make room for Brash? Probert? Fotiu? Brown? Wilson? Gillies? You rank Brashear higher then Kocur, O'Reily or McSorley?
THE ORIGINAL CHASER!!


 
Badduke14
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08-10-04 02:00 AM - Post#303937    


    In response to chaser

How can you even compare Terry O'Reilly to Brashear or McSorley? O'Reilly was game & won some fights, but he was no top 20 fighter. Great power forward in the Cam Neely mode for a couple of seasons, but not even close to top 20!
I've always said Probert is the man. Nobody dominated for as long a period as he did, with so many victories, whether the cocaine or booze helped him, whatever, the guy was awesome!! IMO Brown is #2. He knew his job, & did it almost to perfection. Could he throw a right? Who knows, many of his fights didn't last long enough to find out. Best lefty alltime, was feared & had some big time wins! Tim Hunter is my choice for #3 alltime. Best conditioned athelete with the most stamina over anyone, could take a punch, & fought Semenko more times than anyone, & lived to talk about it. He could fight anyway you wanted, toe to toe, or tug & throw. Not many losses for Hunter during his Flame days. Very underrated because of where he played.
Paul, I'm still waiting to see who has domintated as much as Brashear with as few losses as him? Tell me?
David Jesiolowski: Likeable balding WHL gonk. (Napes)


 
HABSFAN
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08-10-04 06:29 AM - Post#303959    


    In response to ILB

My favorites are:
ANGELSTAD
BERUBE
BIALOWAS
BRASHEAR
BROWN,D
CLARK,W
COCHRANE
DONNELLY
GRIMSON
KOCUR
KORDIC,J
LAUS
MCSORLEY
MCLAREN,STEVE
NILAN
NYSTROM
PROBERT
ROBERGE,S
TWIST
WILSON,B
 
gulash
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08-10-04 07:49 AM - Post#303977    


    In response to HABSFAN

I have to agree with Badduke that Tim Hunter is a top 5 and Taz who fought them all is no top 20 and i bet i saw 80% of tazes fights.Domi has to be in the top 10.Dont laugh but if Derek Sanderson played a few more years he could be in the top 20.
 
Hike
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08-10-04 07:57 AM - Post#303981    


    In response to gulash

I don't know about Hunter being top 10, let alone top 5. I put him just outside the top 10. Other than his wars with Edmonton and his rivalry with McSorley, he didn't beat too many of the better fighters of his day. He didn't do too well with Nilan, nor Kordic. Took a bad loss to Kocur, lost to Probert, Cochrane, and Fotiu.

I realize he was young, but I just have a tough time putting a guy in the top 10 who lost a fight to Donny Maloney, LOL.
When you have bacon and eggs for breakfast, the chicken makes a contribution, but the pig makes a committment


 
Maguire19
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08-10-04 08:18 AM - Post#303995    


    In response to Hike

Ill try based on what Ive seen.

1.Bob Probert
2.Dave Brown
3.Behn Wilson
4.Clarke Gillies
5.Nick Fotiu
6.Glen Cochrane
7.Larry Playfair
8.Tie Domi
9.Paul Holmgren
10.Bob Nystrom
11.Joey Kocur
12.Donald Brashear
13.Tim Hunter
14.John Kordic
15.Marty McSorely
16.Stu Grimson
17.John Wensink
18.Dave Semenko
19.Tony Twist
20.Stan Jonathon

HM's - OReilly,Berube,Bridgman,Howatt,Jay Miller,Laraque,Beck,
 
Holmgren
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08-10-04 08:35 AM - Post#304013    


    In response to Maguire19

It
I see Blue! . . . He looks glorious!


 
John_P
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08-10-04 08:47 AM - Post#304022    


    In response to ILB

1. Probert
2. Brown
3. Wilson
4. Gillies
5. Kocur
6. Fotiu
7. Playfair
8. Semenko
9. Nystrom
10. Cochrane
11. Hunter
12. Domi
13. O'Reilly
14. Jonathon
15. McSorley
16. Miller
17. Schultz
18. Berube
19. Ferguson
20. Maloney
"And I have no doubt that every new example, will succeed, as every past one has, in showing that religion and gov't will both exist in greater purity the less they are mixed together." James Madison


 
dunlopyousuck
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08-10-04 10:12 AM - Post#304089    


    In response to ILB

Off the top of my head . . . and always subject to change . . .

(1) Joey Kocur
(1) Bob Probert
(3) Dave Brown
(4) Chris Simon
(5) Bob Nystrom
(6) Stu Grimson
(7) Nick Fotiu
(8) Donald Brashear
(9) Behn Wilson
(10) Clark Gillies
(11) John Kordic
(12) Tony Twist
(13) Rob Ray
(14) Craig Berube
(15) Marty McSorley
(16) Tie Domi
(17) Sandy McCarthy
(18) Jim McKenzie
(19) Jay Miller
(20) Larry Playfair
 

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08-10-04 10:20 AM - Post#304096    


    In response to Hike

I think I have to agree about Wilson, although I never liked him. I recently watched his fight tape and I didn't see him lose too many. In fact, I'm convinced if the fights went any longer or the refs didn't break them up, he probably would have won all of them. He had long arms, a powerful punch, he was mean and didn't put up with anyone's shit. I think he was a dirty player and I still don't like him, but he never quit fighting and only got better as the fight continued.

As for the ratings: I've never seen Kocur fight so I have no comments. All I hear is that he was a powerful puncher.

I don't think Jonathan could have taken O'Reilly, I know Maloney got the snot beat out of by O'Reilly on at least two occassions. O'Reilly always had his way with Holmgren.

I don't know about McSorely. He had a lot of energy but I never saw him kick someone's ass. He lost a lot of fights but you couldn't calm him down. I don't know if that puts anyone in the top 20 or not, just not sure. Jay Miller was like that as well.

Also, I think John Kordic should definately be in the mix somewhere.

I do think there is only one guy on the list who would fight anyone of these guys night after night, fight after fight to protect his teammates and that's Terry O'Reilly.
 

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08-10-04 10:25 AM - Post#304106    


    In response to joalkel

I also think that Mel Bridgman and Willi Plett should definately be in the list somewhere.
 
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