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Username Post: Immigration Reform        (Topic#537847)
Badlands92
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11-16-12 10:21 AM - Post#1485974    



This isn't intended to be a shouting match between the sane and insane (although it may end up that way). I honestly want someone to explain to me what is being proposed, what's on the table, and what ultimately will come out of this.

Is the end goal to grant amnesty to the estimated $4M+ illegal children here and then seal up the border? Will that be satisfactory to both parties, or will it lead to further progressiveness? What is the thought process of the Mexican population? Do they understand the need for border security or do many, out of ignorance (malignant or benign), feel it's a witch hunt by white men on Hispanics?

America is rapidly changing, and there's a demonization taking place for anyone using terms like illegal immigrants or illegal aliens. The progressive push wants to ensure that those opposed to II are the actual bad guys.

So, if you can't beat em, join em. But, to what end? Forget "to what cost". That ship sailed a long time ago. So, what is on the table to fix this issue?
I expect to play every day. That's our job. You go out there every day and contribute in some way.

- Jason Kendall, May 5, 2010


 
GOON 21
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11-16-12 10:35 AM - Post#1485977    


    In response to Badlands92

.. Close the border with real resources (fix the actual hole)


.. Fine the business who hire the


.. Pay fine$ for those who broke the law


.. Amnesty but NO citizenship for the lawbreaker, (the children are ok with citizenship) so no voting rights for the people who actually broke the law



Hows that for a start?.....





PS --- in the 1990s, Barbra Boxer advocated tanks on the southern border, funny ha?

Edited by GOON 21 on 11-16-12 10:36 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
 
Spike
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11-16-12 12:03 PM - Post#1485991    


    In response to GOON 21

I live in one of the most liberal places in the world and nobody here likes illegals either. We call them illegals and nobody demonizes us.

With the amount of money we pay to illegals coming from Mexico, we could invest in manufacturing plants in Mexico and solve a big part of the problem. But that seems too simple.

I see orange people.


 
Kanrok
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11-16-12 12:06 PM - Post#1485992    


    In response to Spike

Catholic Church's Position On Immigration Reform

Migration and Refugee Services/Office of Migration Policy and Public Affairs

The United States Conference of Catholic Bishops

January 2011

Comprehensive Immigration Reform

According to the Pew Hispanic Center, there are currently 11.2 million unauthorized persons residing in the United States. Each year, approximately 300,000 more unauthorized immigrants enter the country. In large part, these immigrants feel compelled to enter by either the explicit or implicit promise of employment in the U.S. agriculture, construction, and service industries, among others. Most of this unauthorized flow comes from Mexico, a nation struggling with severe poverty, where it is often impossible for many to earn a living wage and meet the basic needs of their families.

Survival has thus become the primary impetus for unauthorized immigration flows into the United States. Today’s unauthorized immigrants are largely low-skilled workers who come to the United States for work to support their families. Over the past several decades, the demand by U.S. businesses, large and small, for low-skilled workers has grown exponentially, while the supply of available workers for low-skilled jobs has diminished. Yet, there are only 5,000 green cards available annually for low?skilled workers to enter the United States lawfully to reside and work. The only alternative to this is a temporary work visa through the H2A (seasonal agricultural) or H2B (seasonal non?agricultural) visa programs which provide temporary status to low-skilled workers seeking to enter the country lawfully. While H2A visas are not numerically capped, the requirements are onerous. H2B visas are capped at 66,000 annually. Both only provide temporary status to work for a U.S. employer for one year. At their current numbers, these are woefully insufficient to provide legal means for the foreign-born to enter the United States to live and work, and thereby meet our demand for foreign-born labor.

In light of all of this, many unauthorized consider the prospect of being apprehended for crossing illegally into the United States a necessary risk. Even after being arrested and deported, reports indicate that many immigrants attempt to re-enter the United States once again in the hope of bettering their lives.

Adding to this very human dilemma is the potentially dangerous nature of crossing the Southern border. Smugglers looking to take advantage of would-be immigrants extort them for exorbitant sums of money and then transport them to the U.S. under perilous conditions. Other immigrants have opted to access the U.S. by crossing through the Southwest’s treacherous deserts. As a result, thousands of migrants have tragically perished in such attempts from heat exposure, dehydration, and drowning.

Catholic Social Teaching

The Catholic Catechism instructs the faithful that good government has two duties, both of which must be carried out and neither of which can be ignored. The first duty is to welcome the foreigner out of charity and respect for the human person. Persons have the right to immigrate and thus government must accommodate this right to the greatest extent possible, especially financially blessed nations: "The more prosperous nations are obliged, to the extent they are able, to welcome the foreigner in search of the security and the means of livelihood which he cannot find in his country of origin. Public authorities should see to it that the natural right is respected that places a guest under the protection of those who receive him." Catholic Catechism, 2241.

The second duty is to secure one’s border and enforce the law for the sake of the common good. Sovereign nations have the right to enforce their laws and all persons must respect the legitimate exercise of this right: "Political authorities, for the sake of the common good for which they are responsible may make the exercise of the right to immigrate subject to various juridical conditions, especially with regard to the immigrants' duties toward their country of adoption. Immigrants are obliged to respect with gratitude the material and spiritual heritage of the country that receives them, to obey its laws and to assist in carrying civic burdens." Catholic Catechism, 2241.

In January 2003, the U.S. Catholic Bishops released a pastoral letter on migration entitled, "Strangers No Longer: Together on the Journey of Hope." In their letter, the Bishops stressed that, "[w]hen persons cannot find employment in their country of origin to support themselves and their families, they have a right to find work elsewhere in order to survive. Sovereign nations should provide ways to accommodate this right." No. 35. The Bishops made clear that the "[m]ore powerful economic nations…ave a stronger obligation to accommodate migration flows." No. 36.

USCCB Position

The United States Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB) opposes "enforcement only" immigration policies and supports comprehensive immigration reform. In Strangers No Longer: Together on the Journey of Hope, the U.S. Catholic Bishops outlined the elements of their proposal for comprehensive immigration reform. These include:

Earned Legalization:
An earned legalization program would allow foreign nationals of good moral character who are living in the United States to apply to adjust their status to obtain lawful permanent residence. Such a program would create an eventual path to citizenship, requiring applicants to complete and pass background checks, pay a fine, and establish eligibility for resident status to participate in the program. Such a program would help stabilize the workforce, promote family unity, and bring a large population "out of the shadows," as members of their communities.

Future Worker Program:
A worker program to permit foreign?born workers to enter the country safely and legally would help reduce illegal immigration and the loss of life in the American desert. Any program should include workplace protections, living wage levels, safeguards against the displacement of U.S. workers, and family unity.

Family-based Immigration Reform:
It currently takes years for family members to be reunited through the family-based legal immigration system. This leads to family breakdown and, in some cases, illegal immigration. Changes in family-based immigration should be made to increase the number of family visas available and reduce family reunification waiting times.

Restoration of Due Process Rights:
Due process rights taken away by the 1996 Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act (IIRIRA) should be restored. For example, the three and ten year bars to reentry should be eliminated.

Addressing Root Causes:
Congress should examine the root causes of migration, such as under-development and poverty in sending countries, and seek long-term solutions. The antidote to the problem of illegal immigration is sustainable economic development in sending countries. In an ideal world, migration should be driven by choice, not necessity.

Enforcement:
The U.S. Catholic Bishops accept the legitimate role of the U.S. government in intercepting unauthorized migrants who attempt to travel to the United States. The Bishops also believe that by increasing lawful means for migrants to enter, live, and work in the United States, law enforcement will be better able to focus upon those who truly threaten public safety: drug and human traffickers, smugglers, and would-be terrorists. Any enforcement measures must be targeted, proportional, and humane.
When statesmen forsake their own private conscience for the sake of their public duties they lead their country by a short route to chaos. - St. Thomas More


 
Badlands92
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11-16-12 12:21 PM - Post#1485996    


    In response to Spike

  • Spike Said:
I live in one of the most liberal places in the world and nobody here likes illegals either. We call them illegals and nobody demonizes us.

With the amount of money we pay to illegals coming from Mexico, we could invest in manufacturing plants in Mexico and solve a big part of the problem. But that seems too simple.


http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2012/ 10/31/is...

http://takingnote.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/09/28/the...

http://communities.washingtontimes.com/neighborhoo...

http://thefeministtexican .wordpress.com/stop-sayin...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/charles-garcia/illeg...

Just a few.
I expect to play every day. That's our job. You go out there every day and contribute in some way.

- Jason Kendall, May 5, 2010


 
taz
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11-16-12 12:43 PM - Post#1486002    


    In response to Badlands92

I came to the States 13 years ago and did it the right way, did the paperwork, paid the fees, waited the 5 years before I could apply for citizenship. If you can't do it legally, you shouldn't be allowed in. You certainly shouldn't be allowed in and given z drivers license or access to any firm of social benefit that citizens pay into. I'd like to see them enforce the laws, shop illegal immigrants back over the border and hit companies who hire them with stiff penalties.
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Spike
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11-16-12 12:48 PM - Post#1486004    


    In response to Badlands92

  • Badlands92 Said:
  • Spike Said:
I live in one of the most liberal places in the world and nobody here likes illegals either. We call them illegals and nobody demonizes us.

With the amount of money we pay to illegals coming from Mexico, we could invest in manufacturing plants in Mexico and solve a big part of the problem. But that seems too simple.


http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2012/ 10/31/is...

http://takingnote.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/09/28/the...

http://communities.washingtontimes.com/neighborhoo...

http://thefeministtexican .wordpress.com/stop-sayin...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/charles-garcia/illeg...

Just a few.




Oh the media. I thought you were talking about real life.



I see orange people.




Edited by Spike on 11-16-12 12:49 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
 
Badlands92
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11-16-12 01:00 PM - Post#1486006    


    In response to Spike

  • Spike Said:
Oh the media. I thought you were talking about real life.


The opinions in media don't reflect those of people in real life?

II doesn't come up in conversation often around here, hence my questions about it.

I still have no idea what any politicians or advocates are actually proposing.
I expect to play every day. That's our job. You go out there every day and contribute in some way.

- Jason Kendall, May 5, 2010


 
NYRfan
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11-16-12 01:42 PM - Post#1486023    


    In response to Badlands92

Still waiting for the border security in return for Reagan's acceptance of amnesty, lol.

I fully expect Boner to accept a deal where we get amnesty this year, in exchange for border / security upgrades in 2050.


 
Pete
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11-27-12 11:51 AM - Post#1488623    


    In response to NYRfan

It will be as clear as Obamacare was. And then Nancy Pelosi will make sense of all of it for us.
 
Cotton
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11-27-12 11:54 AM - Post#1488627    


    In response to Pete

Did anyone see the story about the female mayor in Mexico that the cartels tortured and killed? It's disgusting. Mexico is a totally failed state IMO.
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-creed of Texas Ranger Captain W. J. McDonald




 
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