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Username Post: Interesting read on the estate "tax"        (Topic#537868)
Tim-
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11-18-12 02:14 PM - Post#1486530    



http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/11/16/r ancher...

How exactly is this not stealing?
"It is not our fault that the world is bad, and we do not want to die changing it. We want to live- that is all."

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taz
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11-18-12 03:03 PM - Post#1486534    


    In response to Tim-

I read that as well. Just terrible.
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PuckRogue
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11-18-12 05:08 PM - Post#1486547    


    In response to taz

This is Papa John's fault.

-PR
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Johnny_Upton
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11-18-12 05:11 PM - Post#1486548    


    In response to PuckRogue

Wait until they go after 401k's...
I'll see you down in Arizona bay


 
PuckRogue
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11-18-12 06:55 PM - Post#1486572    


    In response to Johnny_Upton

If this helps pay the pensions at GM, it's worthwhile...right?

-PR
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Marcelino Jeopardy
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11-18-12 11:58 PM - Post#1486612    


    In response to PuckRogue

"The idea behind the estate tax is to prevent the very wealthy among us from accumulating vast fortunes that they can pass along to the next generation," said Patrick Lester, director of Federal Fiscal Policy with the progressive think tank -- OMB Watch.


Here it is right out in the open. Pretty sad if you ask me. I guess it's ok when "you didn't build it" anyways right.
 
Renard
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11-19-12 09:33 AM - Post#1486636    


    In response to Marcelino Jeopardy

Disgusting tax...but then again half of the crap coming out of the left in terms of "1% vs 99%" and "fair share" and all this crap is disgusting to me, so I'm obviously out of touch.
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foolish
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11-19-12 10:29 AM - Post#1486645    


    In response to Renard

I'm not sure how I feel about estate taxes - on one side I don't see why American's shouldn't have to pay something when they inherit (like Canadians Brits etc do). In some respects it seems like a reasonable way to tackle the deficit as it's money the receiver didn't earn (generally speaking).... but my wife and I stand to be saddled with a 7 figure tax bill when her parents pass (American's) and a similar bill when my mo passes (Canadian).

Honest question - why aren't ranchers incorporating to protect their businesses? Its seems like it would be a logical step given the financial scope of many farms?
 
Tim-
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11-19-12 11:53 AM - Post#1486653    


    In response to foolish

Foolish, why SHOULD we pay when we die? Isn't death enough of a penalty? Not to mention that we already pay income tax!
"It is not our fault that the world is bad, and we do not want to die changing it. We want to live- that is all."

-Tadeusz Borowski


 
Johnny_Upton
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11-19-12 12:08 PM - Post#1486657    


    In response to foolish

  • foolish Said:
I'm not sure how I feel about estate taxes - on one side I don't see why American's shouldn't have to pay something when they inherit (like Canadians Brits etc do). In some respects it seems like a reasonable way to tackle the deficit as it's money the receiver didn't earn (generally speaking).... but my wife and I stand to be saddled with a 7 figure tax bill when her parents pass (American's) and a similar bill when my mo passes (Canadian).

Honest question - why aren't ranchers incorporating to protect their businesses? Its seems like it would be a logical step given the financial scope of many farms?



Its still an asset transfer
I'll see you down in Arizona bay


 
foolish
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11-19-12 12:12 PM - Post#1486660    


    In response to Tim-

"we" don't pay. The people who get what "we" leave do. Its income isn't it? why should it be tax free?

I suppose growing up in Canada, it was just a fact of life, so I find it odd that its so debated so heavily here. Kind of like how I feel so funny handing over cash at the doctor's office. To an American its part of the gig, but as a foreigner, it still feels weird.

I'll stand by "its income, therefore it should be taxed". Why shouldn't it be?
 
Tim-
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11-19-12 12:19 PM - Post#1486668    


    In response to foolish

Because it's already taxed.
"It is not our fault that the world is bad, and we do not want to die changing it. We want to live- that is all."

-Tadeusz Borowski


 
ed21
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11-19-12 12:20 PM - Post#1486670    


    In response to foolish

If I give you money for your birthday, is that income? Of course not. Inherited money isn't income, either. Now you can think it should be taxed, but don't call it income. Income is earned.

It's bad enough to tax liquid assets, ie you inherit 10,000,000 and they government takes 4,000,000 of it. I think it's theft, but at least you can pay it. But how about real property? Here's some land that has been in the family for generations. Now go sell it so you can afford to pay the tax on it.
"So I said, 'Listen pal, your car was upside down when we got here. And as for you grandmother, well she shouldn't have mouthed off to us.'" Homer Simpson


 
foolish
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11-19-12 01:52 PM - Post#1486688    


    In response to ed21

ed21 - my argument totally breaks down with the real property issue.

If I get money for my birthday its not taxed until it reaches a certain level I believe (12.5k?).

How is inheritance (liquid assets) not income? Are gambling or investment returns not considered income? I'm not totally onboard with that idea..
 
foolish
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11-19-12 01:54 PM - Post#1486690    


    In response to Tim-

Tim - it was taxed when relieved by another party. Once its passed to the survivor, that is a different transaction. Also, some/much of those assests may not have been taxed (retirement savings, etc)....

 
Canucko29
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11-19-12 02:00 PM - Post#1486694    


    In response to ed21

I'm not sure if I would be in favour of removing the tax completely, but I would definitely be in favour of creating a tax shield for those who opt to continue business and operations that employ other people and contribute to the economy. However, I am not in favour of someone receiving inheritances tax free being incentived to liquidate the estates assets without having to pay any taxes or penalties. It doesn't contribute to the economy and in fact removes from it. And if that's the intent to begin with (selling all assets), then I don't see why I should be so concerned. In this case, I want the business to continue running and paying a corporate tax rate every year as opposed to someone sitting on a big pile of cash. Therefore, give them the means to continue doing business as usual and encourage it. Punish those who have no regard for it.

Conversely, I think the middle class should get an exemption on any domestic homes/properties inherited, even if they sell it.

For now, in Canada, the way to deal with this is proper tax, estate and succession planning, and capital restructuring planning. Everyone adjusts.
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ed21
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11-19-12 03:21 PM - Post#1486704    


    In response to foolish

  • foolish Said:
ed21 - my argument totally breaks down with the real property issue.

If I get money for my birthday its not taxed until it reaches a certain level I believe (12.5k?).

How is inheritance (liquid assets) not income? Are gambling or investment returns not considered income? I'm not totally onboard with that idea..




I guess when it comes to the term inheritance, we are just arguing semantics. Inheritance is not taxed as income, it's taxed as an inheritance - their are different rules and rates. Again, I understand someone thinking it should be taxed, although I don't agree with it. But it is certainly not treated the same as income.

It's just a money grab anyway. And if I am not mistaken, it's the estate, not the beneficiary that is taxed. So, the person made money, paid taxes on it, died and was taxed again on the same money, simply for dying.
"So I said, 'Listen pal, your car was upside down when we got here. And as for you grandmother, well she shouldn't have mouthed off to us.'" Homer Simpson


 
Tim-
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11-19-12 04:16 PM - Post#1486718    


    In response to foolish

  • foolish Said:
Tim - it was taxed when relieved by another party. Once its passed to the survivor, that is a different transaction. Also, some/much of those assests may not have been taxed (retirement savings, etc)....





Okay, I'm convinced, we need a new Tuesday tax, too. How else are we supposed to pay the tax collector's salary?
"It is not our fault that the world is bad, and we do not want to die changing it. We want to live- that is all."

-Tadeusz Borowski


 
mtnbiker
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11-19-12 09:55 PM - Post#1486812    


    In response to Tim-

Generally speaking, estate tax is the tax on an estate when someone passes away (before the beneficiary receives the assets) and it's at the federal level. Some states have (or had) an inheritance tax which is a tax to the recipient (beneficiary) and is at the state level.

The general term "death tax" is misleading because many people consider the ordinary income tax in deferred assets at death to be a death tax. Example: Retirement assets, for which many citizens have the bulk of their money comes from 401(k)s which came from pre-tax, payroll deductions and employer matching. None of this money has been taxed throughout the deferral process. Anyone taking money out is taxed. If a child is the beneficiary of a $500K IRA, they are taxed as they take the money. If they take out the whole thing, then the entire balance is taxed with no cap gain treatment, and unless they do some planning then it is going to be a big bill to Uncle Sam.

My beef with the estate tax is that the exempt amount is constantly changing making it hard for a person/family to plan with any certainty. What used to be a $600K exemption, became $1M, then $5M, and potentially back to $1M.
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juha82
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11-20-12 09:06 AM - Post#1486877    


    In response to mtnbiker

Here in Finland the parliamentarians wanna taxes Finns with high way and it dont make any sense IMO.
I am more a fan with lower taxing way.
They swear ; we will taxes you with lower way " but on next day they changed their opinion.
Politic is important thing in a whole world but it sucks sometimes.

Estate tax hmm ... not good thing IMO.
Rather put down more a taxing and put a focus to working places adding.
 
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