taz
hall of famer
Total Posts: 8069
Average Post Ranks%:
User Rank%:
|
12-12-12 11:48 AM - Post#1492020
Kudos to Gov. Snyder on making this happen.
Large Screen Laptop...$600
Internet Service...$50
Reading Johnz's inane homer posts...Priceless |
|
Mike
Administrator
Total Posts: 24163
Average Post Ranks%:
User Rank%:
|
12-12-12 11:50 AM - Post#1492021
In response to taz
Countdown 3,2,1......before Balridge starts crying
|
foolish
veteran
Total Posts: 409
Average Post Ranks%:
User Rank%:
|
12-12-12 12:04 PM - Post#1492028
In response to Mike
I love the term "right to work"... should be "right to work for less money and benefits and have no protections from your employer"!
In truth, Michigan probably needed this - they need something to get things moving- but these laws result in lower averages wages and larger gaps between rich and poor. Its funny that all the least educated states in America seem to have these laws.
|
taz
hall of famer
Total Posts: 8069
Average Post Ranks%:
User Rank%:
|
12-12-12 12:25 PM - Post#1492033
In response to foolish
Is it a coincidence that the least educated states are heavy union as well?
Giving someone the basic right to decide whether a union is something they do or do not want to be involved with is flat out good. It has been a benefit to other states and hopefully it can pull in non-manufacturing jobs and have the stare move away from being a one trick pony so heavily reliant on a single industry.
Large Screen Laptop...$600
Internet Service...$50
Reading Johnz's inane homer posts...Priceless |
|
Pete
hall of famer
Total Posts: 7159
Average Post Ranks%:
User Rank%:
|
12-12-12 01:29 PM - Post#1492046
In response to foolish
I love the term "right to work"... should be "right to work for less money and benefits and have no protections from your employer"!
In truth, Michigan probably needed this - they need something to get things moving- but these laws result in lower averages wages and larger gaps between rich and poor. Its funny that all the least educated states in America seem to have these laws.
I never understood why so many pro-union people were liberals when liberals first and foremost argue for freedom of choice. How is this anything more than affording people additional flexibility?
|
Spike
legend
Total Posts: 10056
Average Post Ranks%:
User Rank%:
|
12-12-12 01:32 PM - Post#1492047
In response to Pete
Probably the same reasons why I never understand why conservatives are so anti-union. Collective bargaining IS the free market system at work.
|
foolish
veteran
Total Posts: 409
Average Post Ranks%:
User Rank%:
|
12-12-12 01:33 PM - Post#1492048
In response to taz
Low-education means more unskilled labor means more labor-intensive industry which attracts unions.
I get that basic right argument, but its documented that these laws equal lower salaries. When you are looking for employees in a broken economy with huge unemployment, you will always find someone who will work for less.
|
Kanrok
legend
Total Posts: 14505
Average Post Ranks%:
User Rank%:
|
12-12-12 01:39 PM - Post#1492050
In response to taz
Is it a coincidence that the least educated states are heavy union as well?
What do you mean by "least educated" and "heavy union?"
Be specific.
The states that are currently not "right to work" include California, Oregon, Washington, Montana, New Mexico, Colorado, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Illinois, Missouri, Ohio, Pennsylvania, New York, New Jersey, Maryland, Delaware, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Connecticut, etc.
So what, exactly is your point again?
| When statesmen forsake their own private conscience for the sake of their public duties they lead their country by a short route to chaos. - St. Thomas More |
|
Pete
hall of famer
Total Posts: 7159
Average Post Ranks%:
User Rank%:
|
12-12-12 02:36 PM - Post#1492060
In response to Spike
Probably the same reasons why I never understand why conservatives are so anti-union. Collective bargaining IS the free market system at work.
I think there are a lot of similarities in how Unions are like Big Government. Layers of useless admin, more opportunity for corruption, homogenizing roles and skills, and fostering a culture that doesn't seem ripe to stimulate innovation and or reward excellence.
Now before you jump on me, yes, those are perceptions and not necessarily fact, But I think Unions need to be means tested.
|
Spike
legend
Total Posts: 10056
Average Post Ranks%:
User Rank%:
|
12-12-12 02:41 PM - Post#1492061
In response to Pete
Not talking about how the unions are run from the inside. I am talking about an individual workers right to join up with others to bargain collectively for their salary and benefits. It's truly a free market that allows that.
|
Badlands92
legend
Total Posts: 12092
Average Post Ranks%:
User Rank%:
|
12-12-12 02:43 PM - Post#1492062
In response to Spike
Isn't it a free market that allows an individual to do that for him/herself?
I expect to play every day. That's our job. You go out there every day and contribute in some way.
- Jason Kendall, May 5, 2010 |
|
TGR32
superstar
Total Posts: 4413
Average Post Ranks%:
User Rank%:
|
12-12-12 02:52 PM - Post#1492063
In response to Badlands92
Republicans shooting themselves in the foot again. This will appeal to some but cost them in the long run. They got out maneuvered in the last election and while this will appeal to some (who hate unions)in their base, its going to assist in alienating them to a broader base.
And I tend to lean to the right in voting..
|
Renard
superstar
Total Posts: 4605
Average Post Ranks%:
User Rank%:
|
12-12-12 02:54 PM - Post#1492064
In response to Spike
Not talking about how the unions are run from the inside. I am talking about an individual workers right to join up with others to bargain collectively for their salary and benefits. It's truly a free market that allows that.
I'm asking, because I honestly don't know..but this law doesn't prohibit forming a union does it? I was under the impression that it just made it an option to not have to join. That seems completely rational to me, but if they are saying that you cannot form a union (which I doubt), I would agree that would be WAY too far.
I try to avoid politics a little more these days as its all so utterly maddening, but I would think that this should be fairly common sense legislation...you shouldn't have to join a union for employment anymore than you should have to join a political party, a club, etc.
| Johan Gambelputty de von Ausfern -schplenden -schlitter -crasscrenbon -fried -digger -dangle -dungle -burstein -von -knacker -thrasher -apple -banger -horowitz -ticolensic -grander -knotty -spelltinkl |
|
Spike
legend
Total Posts: 10056
Average Post Ranks%:
User Rank%:
|
12-12-12 03:00 PM - Post#1492066
In response to Badlands92
Isn't it a free market that allows an individual to do that for him/herself?
of course.
|
Spike
legend
Total Posts: 10056
Average Post Ranks%:
User Rank%:
|
12-12-12 03:29 PM - Post#1492068
In response to Renard
Not talking about how the unions are run from the inside. I am talking about an individual workers right to join up with others to bargain collectively for their salary and benefits. It's truly a free market that allows that.
I'm asking, because I honestly don't know..but this law doesn't prohibit forming a union does it? I was under the impression that it just made it an option to not have to join. That seems completely rational to me, but if they are saying that you cannot form a union (which I doubt), I would agree that would be WAY too far.
I try to avoid politics a little more these days as its all so utterly maddening, but I would think that this should be fairly common sense legislation...you shouldn't have to join a union for employment anymore than you should have to join a political party, a club, etc.
I don't know exactly what this law does either. I agree with everything you've said, union workers and individual workers are equal parts of the free market system, IMO.
|
TGR32
superstar
Total Posts: 4413
Average Post Ranks%:
User Rank%:
|
12-12-12 04:08 PM - Post#1492070
In response to Pete
I never understood why so many pro-union people were liberals when liberals first and foremost argue for freedom of choice.
What makes you think pro-union = liberals?
I think you'll find there are many people who vote Republican, or are part of the moderate swing groups, who are either in a collective bargaining unit or believe in collective bargaining rights. They may not make up the activist portion who vote lock step with the Dems but I'm sure you will find many who tend to vote to the right. In the end each individual person makes their own choice when they enter into the voting booth.
This is why this is a losing course of direction for the Rebublicans in the long run.
|
Renard
superstar
Total Posts: 4605
Average Post Ranks%:
User Rank%:
|
12-12-12 04:12 PM - Post#1492071
In response to TGR32
This is why this is a losing course of direction for the Rebublicans in the long run.
That may very well be true, but is it the right thing to do?
| Johan Gambelputty de von Ausfern -schplenden -schlitter -crasscrenbon -fried -digger -dangle -dungle -burstein -von -knacker -thrasher -apple -banger -horowitz -ticolensic -grander -knotty -spelltinkl |
Edited by Renard on 12-12-12 04:13 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
|
TGR32
superstar
Total Posts: 4413
Average Post Ranks%:
User Rank%:
|
|
HEAVYWEIGHT
hall of famer
Total Posts: 5534
Average Post Ranks%:
User Rank%:
|
|
Holmgren
superstar
Total Posts: 2582
Average Post Ranks%:
User Rank%:
|
12-12-12 04:41 PM - Post#1492075
In response to HEAVYWEIGHT
If any union provides a useful service they should not have anything to worry about.
| I see Blue! . . . He looks glorious! |
|
