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Username Post: Michigan rolls with Right To Work...        (Topic#538041)
taz
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12-12-12 11:48 AM - Post#1492020    



Kudos to Gov. Snyder on making this happen.
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Mike
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12-12-12 11:50 AM - Post#1492021    


    In response to taz

Countdown 3,2,1......before Balridge starts crying


 
foolish
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12-12-12 12:04 PM - Post#1492028    


    In response to Mike

I love the term "right to work"... should be "right to work for less money and benefits and have no protections from your employer"!

In truth, Michigan probably needed this - they need something to get things moving- but these laws result in lower averages wages and larger gaps between rich and poor. Its funny that all the least educated states in America seem to have these laws.
 
taz
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12-12-12 12:25 PM - Post#1492033    


    In response to foolish

Is it a coincidence that the least educated states are heavy union as well?

Giving someone the basic right to decide whether a union is something they do or do not want to be involved with is flat out good. It has been a benefit to other states and hopefully it can pull in non-manufacturing jobs and have the stare move away from being a one trick pony so heavily reliant on a single industry.
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Pete
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12-12-12 01:29 PM - Post#1492046    


    In response to foolish

  • foolish Said:
I love the term "right to work"... should be "right to work for less money and benefits and have no protections from your employer"!

In truth, Michigan probably needed this - they need something to get things moving- but these laws result in lower averages wages and larger gaps between rich and poor. Its funny that all the least educated states in America seem to have these laws.



I never understood why so many pro-union people were liberals when liberals first and foremost argue for freedom of choice. How is this anything more than affording people additional flexibility?
 
Spike
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12-12-12 01:32 PM - Post#1492047    


    In response to Pete

Probably the same reasons why I never understand why conservatives are so anti-union. Collective bargaining IS the free market system at work.
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foolish
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12-12-12 01:33 PM - Post#1492048    


    In response to taz

Low-education means more unskilled labor means more labor-intensive industry which attracts unions.

I get that basic right argument, but its documented that these laws equal lower salaries. When you are looking for employees in a broken economy with huge unemployment, you will always find someone who will work for less.
 
Kanrok
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12-12-12 01:39 PM - Post#1492050    


    In response to taz

  • taz Said:
Is it a coincidence that the least educated states are heavy union as well?




What do you mean by "least educated" and "heavy union?"

Be specific.

The states that are currently not "right to work" include California, Oregon, Washington, Montana, New Mexico, Colorado, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Illinois, Missouri, Ohio, Pennsylvania, New York, New Jersey, Maryland, Delaware, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Connecticut, etc.

So what, exactly is your point again?
Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for justice, for they shall be satisfied.


 
Pete
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12-12-12 02:36 PM - Post#1492060    


    In response to Spike

  • Spike Said:
Probably the same reasons why I never understand why conservatives are so anti-union. Collective bargaining IS the free market system at work.



I think there are a lot of similarities in how Unions are like Big Government. Layers of useless admin, more opportunity for corruption, homogenizing roles and skills, and fostering a culture that doesn't seem ripe to stimulate innovation and or reward excellence.

Now before you jump on me, yes, those are perceptions and not necessarily fact, But I think Unions need to be means tested.
 
Spike
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12-12-12 02:41 PM - Post#1492061    


    In response to Pete

Not talking about how the unions are run from the inside. I am talking about an individual workers right to join up with others to bargain collectively for their salary and benefits. It's truly a free market that allows that.
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Badlands92
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12-12-12 02:43 PM - Post#1492062    


    In response to Spike

Isn't it a free market that allows an individual to do that for him/herself?
I expect to play every day. That's our job. You go out there every day and contribute in some way.

- Jason Kendall, May 5, 2010


 
TGR32
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12-12-12 02:52 PM - Post#1492063    


    In response to Badlands92

Republicans shooting themselves in the foot again. This will appeal to some but cost them in the long run. They got out maneuvered in the last election and while this will appeal to some (who hate unions)in their base, its going to assist in alienating them to a broader base.

And I tend to lean to the right in voting..


 
Renard
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12-12-12 02:54 PM - Post#1492064    


    In response to Spike

  • Spike Said:
Not talking about how the unions are run from the inside. I am talking about an individual workers right to join up with others to bargain collectively for their salary and benefits. It's truly a free market that allows that.



I'm asking, because I honestly don't know..but this law doesn't prohibit forming a union does it? I was under the impression that it just made it an option to not have to join. That seems completely rational to me, but if they are saying that you cannot form a union (which I doubt), I would agree that would be WAY too far.

I try to avoid politics a little more these days as its all so utterly maddening, but I would think that this should be fairly common sense legislation...you shouldn't have to join a union for employment anymore than you should have to join a political party, a club, etc.
Johan Gambelputty de von Ausfern -schplenden -schlitter -crasscrenbon -fried -digger -dangle -dungle -burstein -von -knacker -thrasher -apple -banger -horowitz -ticolensic -grander -knotty -spelltinkl


 
Spike
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12-12-12 03:00 PM - Post#1492066    


    In response to Badlands92

  • Badlands92 Said:
Isn't it a free market that allows an individual to do that for him/herself?



of course.
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Spike
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12-12-12 03:29 PM - Post#1492068    


    In response to Renard

  • Renard Said:
  • Spike Said:
Not talking about how the unions are run from the inside. I am talking about an individual workers right to join up with others to bargain collectively for their salary and benefits. It's truly a free market that allows that.



I'm asking, because I honestly don't know..but this law doesn't prohibit forming a union does it? I was under the impression that it just made it an option to not have to join. That seems completely rational to me, but if they are saying that you cannot form a union (which I doubt), I would agree that would be WAY too far.

I try to avoid politics a little more these days as its all so utterly maddening, but I would think that this should be fairly common sense legislation...you shouldn't have to join a union for employment anymore than you should have to join a political party, a club, etc.



I don't know exactly what this law does either. I agree with everything you've said, union workers and individual workers are equal parts of the free market system, IMO.
I see orange people.


 
TGR32
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12-12-12 04:08 PM - Post#1492070    


    In response to Pete

  • Pete Said:
I never understood why so many pro-union people were liberals when liberals first and foremost argue for freedom of choice.



What makes you think pro-union = liberals?

I think you'll find there are many people who vote Republican, or are part of the moderate swing groups, who are either in a collective bargaining unit or believe in collective bargaining rights. They may not make up the activist portion who vote lock step with the Dems but I'm sure you will find many who tend to vote to the right. In the end each individual person makes their own choice when they enter into the voting booth.


This is why this is a losing course of direction for the Rebublicans in the long run.




 
Renard
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12-12-12 04:12 PM - Post#1492071    


    In response to TGR32

  • TGR32 Said:

This is why this is a losing course of direction for the Rebublicans in the long run.






That may very well be true, but is it the right thing to do?
Johan Gambelputty de von Ausfern -schplenden -schlitter -crasscrenbon -fried -digger -dangle -dungle -burstein -von -knacker -thrasher -apple -banger -horowitz -ticolensic -grander -knotty -spelltinkl




Edited by Renard on 12-12-12 04:13 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
 
TGR32
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12-12-12 04:16 PM - Post#1492072    


    In response to Renard

No


 
HEAVYWEIGHT
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12-12-12 04:37 PM - Post#1492073    


    In response to TGR32

what about this awesome reporting of union members hope and change?

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Journalism/2012/1 2/12...


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Holmgren
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12-12-12 04:41 PM - Post#1492075    


    In response to HEAVYWEIGHT

If any union provides a useful service they should not have anything to worry about.
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