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Username Post: Colton Orr comeback??        (Topic#538244)
CRussell
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01-10-13 10:26 PM - Post#1497957    



http://www.tsn.ca/toronto/blogs/jonas_si egel/?id=4...


TORONTO – He was almost unrecognizable stalking the ice for the Toronto Marlies late last year. Still sporting the familiar #28, Colton Orr was in the midst of a transformation, a transformation desperately required of a player whose stock in the NHL had plummeted, a fighter whose career hung in the balance.

"Even though it was probably a great disappointment for him to be sent to the American League, it was almost a necessary thing to happen for him because it let us basically pull down that reset button for 10 seconds and this hockey player restarted himself and a new guy popped out," Marlies head coach Dallas Eakins told TSN.ca.

His hair now trim and proper, his body and game redefined, Orr is attempting a return to the Maple Leafs this season.

It was about a year ago that the now former Toronto president and GM Brian Burke famously decried the rise of "rats" as the back-drop to Orr's AHL assignment. The Manitoba product had sparsely dressed for Ron Wilson's Leafs up until that point, playing in only five games for an ice-time that totaled slightly more than 22 minutes.

The more the game seemed to learn about concussions, the more fighting was decried, the more earth-shattering hits went unpunished, the more players of Orr's skill-set were viewed as less and less needed in the game. Burke spewed that "rats will take this game over...I see guys that run around and start stuff and won't back it up and it makes me sick to my stomach."

After exactly 100 regular season scraps in the National Hockey League, it was painfully clear that Colton Orr would have to change or face likely extinction.

When Orr joined the Marlies last January, Eakins told him bluntly that he would have to trim down, "lighten so that he could move better on the ice". "I was a lot bigger to try and fight more," Orr conceded to TSN.ca, noting a previously beefed-up top half, "but now I know you've got to be able play and the game's changing a bit so I leaned out, put on a lot of muscle and really worked on my skating and my conditioning."

"He looked really heavy to me without even putting him on a scale or anything like that," Eakins recalled of Orr's physique. "[Fighters are] really concerned about their weight and how much they weigh because when push comes to shove in a fight they want to be as strong as they can.

"For me it goes like this," Eakins continued, "if the toughest guy in the NHL, his name's Joe Blow and he's 240 pounds, he's the toughest guy in the NHL. And then three months later he's 225 pounds, do we fear him any less?"

A "non-negotiable" plan was laid out for Orr, one that would stress conditioning, much of it on the bike, a prominent and continued fabric of the Marlies training regiment. Not only had Orr become too big, however, he was also mired in an "almost in a semi-depressed state" according to Eakins – who endured such an experience in the pros himself – a player sapped of any and all confidence after a nightly string of press box visits. "We really had to instill the belief in him that he could go be that player that he had been before, in recent years," Eakins said. "I wanted him to erase what he had done in Toronto as a player."

An assistant coach with the Leafs for two seasons under Paul Maurice, Eakins remembered Orr well from his more impactful days in New York, one-third of a Rangers checking line that also featured Blair Betts and Ryan Hollweg."

"That line was a pain in our ass," Eakins noted. "They were out there checking and creating havoc with their forecheck. That's where I wanted Colton to go. That's how I really remembered him at his best, not so much with the Leafs.

"He had played his best hockey and I mean he was playing hockey."

As the weight came off last spring, Eakins saw Orr's effectiveness in such a role gradually return. Moving with greater ease and fluidity on the ice, Orr evolved into a depth contributor for the Marlies, a player Eakins could trust in defensive situations at the end of close games.

The redefinition process continued in the offseason. Working with Connecticut-based trainer Ben Prentiss, Orr continued to shed weight and subsequent body fat, while also looking to add muscle in his legs, better balancing the make-up of his body.

In the coming days, he'll attempt to reboot his NHL career at Leafs training camp.

"I know I've got a lot to prove right off the bat," said the 30-year-old, who enters the final year of his contract in Toronto. "I've got to get back to playing a strong checking game and look after my teammates as well."

While the Leafs are crowded up front – especially in the bottom six – they are probably still short on toughness, a trait favoured by Randy Carlyle. Orr could inject himself into a role on the fourth line, but must prove quickly that he can contribute in ways not solely limited to fighting.

"I think he's ready," said Eakins. "I still believe every team needs toughness and some toughness that can play. And I think if [Orr]'s able to pick up where he left off last year he's going to be able to challenge for a spot.

"He turned himself into a guy that you cheer for because he was able to reset himself."


 
Drunk_24-7
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01-11-13 12:17 AM - Post#1497972    


    In response to CRussell

That's not good. Trimming down is what spelled the beginning of the end for Godard. Orr fights with even less defense. If the power is not there to put guys to sleep and the chin is not tucked as it's never been in the past, dropping weight to me sounds like a recipe for disaster. He'll be fine against the light heavyweights and marginal punchers but the heavy hitters like Big Mac or Matty Carkner or even John Scott could spell serious trouble for him if he's not as strong in the clinch and not firing the same kind of mustard behind the big right hands but still leaves himself wide open and engages in toe to toe exchanges without the same power that made him successful more often than not in that environment. He's never going to be a great hockey player. He has to be a good enough enforcer and a dangerous enough fighter to make that irrelevant. If his fighting ability suffers, any strides he makes as a player will not be enough to keep him in the league. Hopefully he's found some kind of conditioning plan where he's managed to drop a few pounds without losing any of that TNT like punching power. I hope he makes it back and is better than ever so I can get back to watching a little bit of Maple Leaf Hockey again.
"To be honest, even though he lost, Hendricks did a better job of enforcing than most heavyweight enforcers do." - Peatycap

Not only is the NHL totally fucked it's fans are out to lunch now as well


 
BlockerBrothers
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01-11-13 12:24 AM - Post#1497973    


    In response to Drunk_24-7

  • Quote:
"For me it goes like this," Eakins continued, "if the toughest guy in the NHL, his name's Joe Blow and he's 240 pounds, he's the toughest guy in the NHL. And then three months later he's 225 pounds, do we fear him any less?"



That right there pretty much sums it up for me. Orr is a tough SOB regardless of what weight he is playing at. Also keep in mind that Eakins is basically saying in a round about way that Orr wasn't in that good a shape. From the sounds of it he lost some fat and put on some muscle. Not sure how that could ever be viewed as a disadvantage in a scrap.
 
Drunk_24-7
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01-11-13 12:35 AM - Post#1497975    


    In response to BlockerBrothers

Because he's a power puncher who fights with no defense. If he cut fat and added muscle because he was truly out of shape, then you're right, it shouldn't be a problem. However if he cut muscle and/or fat to be leaner, faster, but did so at the expense of strength or punching power, it become a disadvantage in fight real quick, especially when you fight a wide open style like Colton Orr where you're willing to take one to give one, confident that the one you give will end things in your favor. You now have a concussion history that you expose to the "take one side" and if the one you're giving ain't got the power and impact it used too, well that can be big trouble against a few of the league's top heavyweights.
"To be honest, even though he lost, Hendricks did a better job of enforcing than most heavyweight enforcers do." - Peatycap

Not only is the NHL totally fucked it's fans are out to lunch now as well


 
Brawls16
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01-11-13 03:52 AM - Post#1497978    


    In response to Drunk_24-7

First off, what a fuckin' beauty Orr is having to go through this whole transformation, trying his heart out to adapt to the game. Just shows how much pride and determination the guy has, good for him!

Secondly, kudos to the Leafs for not only giving him a shot again, but for continuing to try and keep the Enforcer relevant in the NHL. How many teams have completely given up on Heavyweights by waiving, dropping and even just not bothering having any in the system anymore? As soft as the Leafs were last year, in large parts to Ron Wilson mind you, they've got some real toughness in the organization to play with (Orr, Brown, Fraser...hell, even Acton who's loving the fight in the AHL)

Orr will no doubt find himself on the ice for the Leafs this year, one way or another.

With Thornton, Scott and Carkner on the schedule quite a bit, Colt WILL be needed.

....Just like Belak after getting his face smashed in by Orr nonetheless, many here figured he was done. But he came back, won fighter of the year and even dropped Brashear. Now, it's Orr who's defining the odds by coming back after a serious defeat to Parros and of course this whole transformation process.

Great story, Orr has to be the hardest working Fighter in the league. Lets hope he makes it!
#1 - Brian McGrattan (Champ)
#2 - Jay Rosehill
#3 - Luke Gazdic

Fighter of the Year - McGrattan
Rookie of the Year - Gazdic
Fight of the Year - Lucic vs Rechlicz


 
Matt Dillon
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01-11-13 07:02 AM - Post#1497985    


    In response to Brawls16

  • Brawls16 Said:

Orr will no doubt find himself on the ice for the Leafs this year, one way or another.




Poor guy will probably never see the NHL now.. Thanks!


Anyways, I agree with Drunk and his comparison with Godard is spot on. Godard first year in Pittsburgh he was animal and probably league best, fighting at around 230 he was crushing guys, dropped Orr, broke Mac's face, had another 5-6 huge wins, that off season he trimmed down to get more speed in his game and came into camp at like 212 and really was never the same, his punches had alot less power and it seemed like he had less confidence in himself when he dropped the gloves.

Guys like Orr and Godard are never going to be superstars or probably even marginal players, they have roles, so why fuck with them at this stage of their career?


 
ImissPJ
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01-11-13 07:10 AM - Post#1497989    


    In response to Brawls16

Drunk... Punching power is something you're either born with or not. Sure you can work on some things technique-wise to get better, but for the most part you either got it or you don't. Depending on how much weight loss we're talking, it could possibly hurt him as far as the grappling aspect against some of the bigger guys, but I don't think you need to worry about him losing punching power. He was pretty light early on his career when he was developing his reputation as a heavy hitter.

Good for Orr trying to do whatever it takes to get back to the big show. Hopefully it pays off for him and they give him a real shot.


 
juha82
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01-11-13 07:45 AM - Post#1498000    


    In response to Drunk_24-7

  • Drunk_24-7 Said:
That's not good. Trimming down is what spelled the beginning of the end for Godard. Orr fights with even less defense. If the power is not there to put guys to sleep and the chin is not tucked as it's never been in the past, dropping weight to me sounds like a recipe for disaster. He'll be fine against the light heavyweights and marginal punchers but the heavy hitters like Big Mac or Matty Carkner or even John Scott could spell serious trouble for him if he's not as strong in the clinch and not firing the same kind of mustard behind the big right hands but still leaves himself wide open and engages in toe to toe exchanges without the same power that made him successful more often than not in that environment. He's never going to be a great hockey player. He has to be a good enough enforcer and a dangerous enough fighter to make that irrelevant. If his fighting ability suffers, any strides he makes as a player will not be enough to keep him in the league. Hopefully he's found some kind of conditioning plan where he's managed to drop a few pounds without losing any of that TNT like punching power. I hope he makes it back and is better than ever so I can get back to watching a little bit of Maple Leaf Hockey again.




Nope if he get down of his FAT and getting muscle mass so its good idea.
But looks like if his overall weight has dropped down isnt good thing as he not get a muscle enough.
Muscle mass is heavier than plain fat.
If he really gotten muscle mass its good but looks like he hasnt got bec the weight still dropped down.
 
Huard28
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01-11-13 07:50 AM - Post#1498003    


    In response to Brawls16

  • Brawls16 Said:
Secondly, kudos to the Leafs for not only giving him a shot again, but for continuing to try and keep the Enforcer relevant in the NHL. How many teams have completely given up on Heavyweights by waiving, dropping and even just not bothering having any in the system anymore?



Kudos to the Leafs?? Ahhh they have no choice but to give him one last shot as they are paying him
1 million dollars for this season remember. Horrible contract they gambled on, so they have to try and make it work with him to get something out of that million bucks. They aren't doing anyone a favour but themselves.
"I never participate in the game anymore. It doesn't work. I am too bad. I only fight". - Link Gaetz


 
FreezingTexan
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01-11-13 07:53 AM - Post#1498005    


    In response to ImissPJ

Ugh, kudos to Orr for trying but fuck this pussy league for making a guy with a specific role feel like shit for doing his job.
Germany, it's like Wisconsin only with a really bad past.


 
SolidChin34
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01-11-13 07:57 AM - Post#1498008    


    In response to ImissPJ

  • ImissPJ Said:
Drunk... Punching power is something you're either born with or not. Sure you can work on some things technique-wise to get better, but for the most part you either got it or you don't. Depending on how much weight loss we're t
  • Quote:
alking, it could possibly hurt him as far as the grappling aspect against some of the bigger guys, but I don't think you need to worry about him losing punching power. He was pretty light early on his career when he was developing his reputation as a heavy hitter.


^^ This... PJ I feel the same way. Orr had the heavy stone hands from the start. Orr was light in weight when he got his brief shot with the Bruins & smashed up guys faces! I wish him all the best & hope he comes back strong.


Edited by SolidChin34 on 01-11-13 08:00 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
 
SolidChin34
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01-11-13 07:59 AM - Post#1498009    


    In response to SolidChin34

Oops I boxed myself in your quote PJ... Sorry! I don't know what the hell happened with the quote thing...Oh well?

Edited by SolidChin34 on 01-11-13 08:02 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
 
Sask66
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01-11-13 08:32 AM - Post#1498021    


    In response to SolidChin34



When Godard was in Calgary, Iginla talked about how well conditioned Godard was at 214, and how he took note of it for his own conditioning. So would be a bit surprised if Godard put on 15 pounds when he later signed with Pittsburg.

Of course Godard was a much more technical fighter than Orr ever was, as Orr's forte is his power. And since the dangerous fighters all generate most of their power with their legs, he should be fine. For a good example of this just look up the camera angle on that Kocur- Neely fight. Upper body strength and conditioning is needed, but it's not numero uno.
 
Peatycap
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01-11-13 08:41 AM - Post#1498023    


    In response to Sask66

The game has changed; and players have to change with it.

I understand that Drunk was Orr/MacIntyre five times this year.

But if Colton Orr wants to drop weight, play in the NHL, and fight less... we should all be for it. Plus the guy has sustained enough concussions.


 
SolidChin34
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01-11-13 09:37 AM - Post#1498033    


    In response to Peatycap

Like when you get in a fight & your hit with a good shot & get that whit flash, but keep on going... thats trauma to the head. Take enough of those 15-20 times a year & they turn into knock outs, not just flashes anymore. That's what worried me about Orr & other tough guys like him, that absorbed so many punches with there wide open style. He had time to heal the head/brain & should be ok? Im still gonna feel nervous whenever I see him fight this year... If he makes it back to the NHL that is.
 
BlockerBrothers
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01-11-13 09:46 AM - Post#1498036    


    In response to SolidChin34

If he has in fact lost some extra weight and put on some muscle, his power should still be there and hell, he might actually have more. Kocur is a prime example of this. He is only 6ft and normally played at a weight of 215 or so and I think we all agree that there was no issue with his power. With Carlyle coaching, Orr might actually get a shot.

Combine Orr's power with say Thornton's technical prowess and WOW that would be one hell of a scraper!
 
juha82
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01-11-13 09:57 AM - Post#1498047    


    In response to BlockerBrothers

  • BlockerBrothers Said:
If he has in fact lost some extra weight and put on some muscle, his power should still be there and hell, he might actually have more. Kocur is a prime example of this. He is only 6ft and normally played at a weight of 215 or so and I think we all agree that there was no issue with his power. With Carlyle coaching, Orr might actually get a shot.

Combine Orr's power with say Thornton's technical prowess and WOW that would be one hell of a scraper!




YOU JUST COPIED MY POST ON THIS TOPIC BUT I FORGIVE UNLIKE OTHER GUYS WHO ...
 
BlockerBrothers
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01-11-13 09:57 AM - Post#1498048    


    In response to BlockerBrothers

Speaking of Kocur, he turned 48 a few weeks back.

Shit time goes by quick.....
 
BlockerBrothers
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01-11-13 10:05 AM - Post#1498050    


    In response to juha82

  • juha82 Said:
  • BlockerBrothers Said:
If he has in fact lost some extra weight and put on some muscle, his power should still be there and hell, he might actually have more. Kocur is a prime example of this. He is only 6ft and normally played at a weight of 215 or so and I think we all agree that there was no issue with his power. With Carlyle coaching, Orr might actually get a shot.

Combine Orr's power with say Thornton's technical prowess and WOW that would be one hell of a scraper!




YOU JUST COPIED MY POST ON THIS TOPIC BUT I FORGIVE UNLIKE OTHER GUYS WHO ...



Ah.....no. The chances of me intentionally copying one of your posts are slim and none and just an FYI, this is actually my second post in this thread. Been here since the start.

I will send you a Ken Baumgartner life size blow up doll to make up for it if you like.
 
taz
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01-11-13 11:04 AM - Post#1498067    


    In response to BlockerBrothers

The only thing that will put Orr back in the NHL is to improve as a hockey player. If he can't play and continues to be a liability on the ice, he's out. Teams aren't going to bring up a guy like him just to fight. He's one KO away from done. The guy is approaching punching bag status, with all the shots he takes. If he can't play the game, he shouldn't be in the league. I wish him the best and for his sake I hope he can make it back to the NHL without ever having to drop his gloves again. I'd hate to see him end up like Junior Seau.
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