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Username Post: Interested in your Collection        (Topic#548501)
bubbalou
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04-17-17 04:25 PM - Post#1698017    


    In response to Brawler

Ron,don't worry,you will be the first to know when I put the collection up for auction.

I am still active in getting items to enhance the collection,you know to make it more valuable with more good stuff,

I am not worried at all,as collections such as mine will always be worth a good amount at the end of the day,

With fighting being almost non existent,and the quality of the game not what it used to be,more and more people will want the old stuff where it is referred to as the golden era of hockey

So I am not worried what so ever,it still ways to go before I look at disposing the collection.

 
TGR32
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04-17-17 10:10 PM - Post#1698031    


    In response to bubbalou

I have no worries....I'm not selling my collection and I'm not buying yours.


I say good luck. No really good luck...if you can get someone to pony up any $$$ then good for you.


But in this day & age of this age of You Tube and this declining hobby, this is a rapidly declining market for anyone who was looking to cash out.


You need a market to drive up demand. The demand is dwindling as we speak with each upload onto YT and each collector who loses interest in the hobby.


The amount of serious collectors left who would be willing or able to put up any serious cash for a hockey fight collection has declined to the point where you can count them on one hand. And those of us who are left already have what you have in your collection. Your collection has no value to a serious collector like myself. I have everything you have and much more. I'd say its probably the same with the guys who trade games. Your market of serious collectors is pretty much tapped out.


You were on here last year whining that no one was interested in trading anymore. A lot of guys have gotten out and lost interest.....a lot. Just not into it anymore. Every year more and more are leaving. This site is turning into a cesspool of guys arguing about politics. A lot of the old school guys who were into this just don't care anymore. The other site is no better. They've gone down to a small group of the same guys arguing the same old topics. Pretty much how the Old School Forum on this site started to fade. The writing is on the wall and you have to wonder how much longer these sites have. There haven't been any hardcore young hockey fight fans joining these sites and replacing the old guys leaving. The old guys just keep disappearing. The numbers just keep going down. Yeah the old memories are great, but all an old timer has to do now is punch up YT to get their fix now. A lot of guys have just moved on with their lives.


The older guys like us, the guys who were really passionate about possessing the footage itself, are in a unique class. A dying breed. A sub-culture within the hobby. Even on this site, the amount of members who were really into collecting, hardcore - I have to get my hands and possess everything, finding footage, wasn't a huge group of guys to begin with. For whatever reason, those of us who fall into this group had the passion to want to collect all this footage. That group hasn't been expanding. Its been dying off for years now. There aren't any new collectors coming in that have anything worth trading for. Most newer guys are going right to YT and putting their stuff up there for free.


And the younger YT deadbeats aren't going to be knocking down your doors for your collection either. A YT deadbeat is a guy who came into the hobby via discovering this stuff on YT. They never made or created anything in the hobby. They never put in the work to chase down footage, make trades etc. They've had it easy just being able to go on the site and getting if for free. They don't have the passion to possess or own this stuff.

These guys look at uploading footage onto YT as an entitlement. If you don't upload your collection for them to see for free, you're a dick in their eyes. You think they are going to pony up any serious cash? They're used to just going on there and getting for free. You think they have the passion us old school guys had to grab a collection via serious cash? Nope not going to happen. Some of these guys don't give 2 shits about DVD's, VHS tapes etc. Streaming video is all they know and its always been there for them for free.


In their eyes we're the assholes for not putting our collections up there for free. You're the asshole looking for money for yours. I'm the asshole for not taking time out of my busy life, and putting in the work to upload for them, so they can sit back and watch it for free. Trade and mutual benefit? They don't know what that means. Feed me the free stuff...and if you don't, you're a dick. That's where their head's are at about this stuff.


In case you haven't noticed, old school guys have been uploading there collections onto there. And the quality has been getting better. Fights & games.


Why the hell would anyone pay for a collection, when they can just wait and someday its probably going to pop up on YT eventually? Why pay you when Newton Minnow or Retrodan will upload it someday?


Unless the NHL ever came in and purged YT of the fights, well then that would be a game changer. That's when your dream would come true. But that doesn't look like its going to happen anytime soon.


There are very few guys like myself left, who actually take this stuff and create something with it. Yeah I'd buy a collection, if it were worth it to me because I want to create a video work of something. I'm still into the hobby finding and creating stuff. I'll be into it until my last day on this earth. But I'm the rare case. A very rare case now.


What I think, is that if you were really hellbent on selling it, you have done so while you could.


At the end of the day I don't think you're even selling it.


Good luck, and I'll believe it when I see it. Hopefully we can verify your claims if this ever happens.
"So happy I decided to become a Seahawks fan."

Kanrok quitting on the Bears November 2016


 
bubbalou
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04-18-17 02:25 AM - Post#1698037    


    In response to TGR32

For once,Ron's post was very civilized and a very well laid out one as well regarding where the hobby has been and where it is going

I still hold out hope that one day I will be able to do well with my collection.

I do believe there are people who are outside the group here,those that we dont know abou who will stumble across a collection like mine or any other massive collection and will find it very interesting,and unique and would take a chance on it to relive and enjoy the golden era of hockey which simply doesn't exist today.

I believe that a collection such as mine would be picked up by someone outside of this group,who will find it real neat to have a instant hockey library of original games and fights,from the golden era of hockey from the 50's to lets say the mid 90's

You can always find someone who would be interested in collections,its just finding that some one,

As Ron said,we are indeed a rare case,but if you think out side the box and look outside the box,for people who want to come in,well this would be the best opportunity to market and move the collection

I dont think everything will be loaded on YOUTUBE in the forseeable future

I have a number of DVDS of games and fights,I dont believe everything will be available on youtube,it will take many many years for a collection like ours to be downloaded,and time is of an essence

What we see on you tube is a sampling,a small sample,and I believe that we will continue to see a small sample,

People who have these massive collections would not want to just give it away by posting all of it on YOUTUBE,I just dont buy that,

And a question for Mr. Ron himself:

Do you believe that a collector who has a massive library like us,will actually download everything on youtube????

That will take so many years,and I dont think he would download everything to saturate the market keeping alive the dream of cashing out big,

Lets face it,what percentage of what we have is now on youtube????? I would say roughly no more than 10% and I dont see that number going up soon,



Edited by bubbalou on 04-18-17 02:29 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
 
TGR32
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04-18-17 04:13 AM - Post#1698038    


    In response to bubbalou

  • bubbalou Said:
For once,Ron's post was very civilized and a very well laid out one as well regarding where the hobby has been and where it is going






For once? Nick any antagonistic post has been in direct relation to you acting like a dick and trashing me.

You forget that after you went off the rails the first time and apologized, I allowed you the opportunity to walk away with your dignity intact.

But then you went off your meds and started this crap again. So if you're looking for someone to blame look in the mirror buddy. The bad blood was initiated by you. Anyone can just go back and look at those threads after I got this collection to see how this all started.
"So happy I decided to become a Seahawks fan."

Kanrok quitting on the Bears November 2016


 
TGR32
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04-18-17 04:29 AM - Post#1698039    


    In response to bubbalou

  • bubbalou Said:


Do you believe that a collector who has a massive library like us,will actually download everything on youtube????

That will take so many years,and I dont think he would download everything to saturate the market keeping alive the dream of cashing out big,

Lets face it,what percentage of what we have is now on youtube????? I would say roughly no more than 10% and I dont see that number going up soon,





By one guy? No. But there are numerous people who are uploading and continue to upload. I've seen guys I've traded with start to upload their colletctions and the quality is getting better.

The initial uploads were generallly crappy. Bunch of clip whores uploading 5th to 10th gen crap. But now its quality collectors uploading. And what they do with their colections is their business.

The thing is that the amount of footage on there now is immense. I've talked with casual fans who find out about my hobby and they refer to YT. You can go on YT and spend weeks if you want to go through all the footage on there.

The amount of footage is enough to satisfy most people. Sure there are fights they wished people would upload so they can see them. Most guys in the hobby are not wired like us where the passion to chase down and possess footage is an obsession.

They think DYG and the fights on YT will always be there for them.

I think because trading is vitually dead, unless you have your connections with guys you still trade with (like I do), some guys are like, fuck it I'm just going to upload what I have when I get the time.

Not everything will get uploaded. Some stuff will get lost in the cracks. But enough has been uploaded and will continue to get uploaded to satisfy most.

Its the culmination of numerous people who are uploading and now you have guys uploading quality stuff.
"So happy I decided to become a Seahawks fan."

Kanrok quitting on the Bears November 2016


 
bubbalou
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04-18-17 09:13 AM - Post#1698044    


    In response to TGR32

Ron,I still feel that with mass collections such as what we have,in terms of complete games and fights,there is no way over 3000 items will be uploded on you tube in the near future.

What we have on youtube right now are "samples" of things like a few games here and there,usually the same games from different sources as well as the fights.

I think what you will continue ot see on you tube are samplings and a few things here and there,there is no way anyone would download all of their collection on there,for various reasons.

Which brings us to other sources of maximizing returns.

I remember Scott Webb,where he would set up at sports collector shows with Milt Byron.He would do great business in selling games and fight tapes on any given weekend. I believe there would be room for a person to do this at a show,with a TV and DVD plyer showing off the games and selling to collectors and other fans.

Also a web site would also be another avenue to maximize return.

Again,our collections consist of tons of footage that will never be uploaded on you tube. There is till al ot of unseen footage that people would want to see.

A website offerring all the games and fights and brawls and properly done,with a theme like "relive the golden era of hockey" and priced right would do well.

Again youtube will not have everything that we have in our collections and may well never have.

Why would anyone upload all of their collection on youtube? that would take all of the marketibility and flood the market and reduce the value of ones collection.




Edited by bubbalou on 04-18-17 09:17 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
 
Victor Surov
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04-18-17 11:09 AM - Post#1698047    


    In response to bubbalou

I have such thoughts.
To lay out all fights on seasons.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC77wWlVZJjUM wBDwP...
 
TGR32
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04-18-17 02:25 PM - Post#1698061    


    In response to bubbalou

  • bubbalou Said:


Which brings us to other sources of maximizing returns.

I remember Scott Webb,where he would set up at sports collector shows with Milt Byron.He would do great business in selling games and fight tapes on any given weekend. I believe there would be room for a person to do this at a show,with a TV and DVD plyer showing off the games and selling to collectors and other fans.

Also a web site would also be another avenue to maximize return.

Again,our collections consist of tons of footage that will never be uploaded on you tube. There is till al ot of unseen footage that people would want to see.

A website offerring all the games and fights and brawls and properly done,with a theme like "relive the golden era of hockey" and priced right would do well.

Again youtube will not have everything that we have in our collections and may well never have.

Why would anyone upload all of their collection on youtube? that would take all of the marketibility and flood the market and reduce the value of ones collection.








I'd strongly advise you or anyone against that.


Both Scott Webb and the owner of Broad Street Bullies got themselves into some pretty big jams over profiting off of this material. Those were two very prolific cases of openly selling and profiting.


Scott was on here a few years back in a "Warning to all" thread in this section. What happened to the Broad Street Bullies guy was also chronicled in a past thread. Go read those if you want the chills over what can happen by trying to profit on this stuff.


The league and the government came after them hard.


Its one thing to sell your collection as an estate sale because you are getting out, but to openly try to profit as a business venture? That's just inviting them to come down on you with their full weight.


Broad Street Bullies had a paid subscription for its users. That's a no no. That site is now long gong.


Like it or not the league owns copyright over this footage. They don't take kindly to guys trying to profit over it. Some guys have tried to get permission to make a business arrangement with the NHL, and from my understanding the NHL didn't want anything to do with it.


If it were legally possible, and you had the blessing of the NHL, don't you think there would be several out there right now? Several of us could have started our own sites with the quality of footage we have (if we wanted to). The NHL would never sign off on that and you would need their permission.


They went after the guys who used to advertise in the The Hockey News and got those advertisements banned. Sent them all cease and desist letters with warning to never do it again.


The story is Boemer was going to try to fight it. He would have lost.


Years later they ran a sting operation on the internet. Sites like this had to clamp down on guys advertising selling tapes/DVD's. Trading only. They seem to tolerate trading among bona-fide collectors.


Someone out of New Jersey ran a sting on them and bought some tapes. They all got cease and desist letters along with warnings that if they did it again, they would come after them.


If the league wanted to, it could go on YT today and start cracking down on the footage on there. Just start invoking copyright infringement. They seem to tolerate it on YT and from what I've read there's some sort of advertising payoff. I guess they get some sort of cut from advertising on there. But that's free. You don't have to pay anything to go on there and watch hockey fights. They're getting the advertising revenues for visitors to that domain. Its not a per-say arrangement. You're not getting paid for showing hockey fights. You're getting them for people visiting your site and potentially seeing those advertisements.


The apparent line is that you can't charge a subscription or fee for this stuff. If you start a site, that people can see the stuff for free, you can possibly profit from the web advertising on there. Not sure how much that is or if it is even worth it. It would be advisable to check with them to see if they would allow you to do that. They can always come after you and say no and the next thing you know you're in a legal jam.


Simple fact is that YT and some other hockey fight sites are allowed to exist and post footage because they are not profiting from showing that footage. The NHL has seemingly allowed it. They're getting paid for visitors potentially getting their eyes on those ads. Now obviously the lure is the hockey fights but you can visit those sites for free. You start charging a fee to watch the fights, well then you've crossed the line. They go after the seller, not the buyer.


Go read those past threads on Scott Webb or the guy from Broad Street Bully and ask yourself if it is really worth it. They made a lot of money when they were going strong, but it all caught up to them in the end. Past history with the NHL is that they are not going to allow people to profit off of games or fights. The more prolific you get, the more you are going to catch their attention. They have a lot of money at their disposal for lawyers.


Not to mention they can get the IRS and other feds involved to go after you in other ways.


No thanks......


http://www.hockey-fights.com/forum/showtopic.php?t...

http://www.hockey-fights.com/forum/showtopic.php?t...


"So happy I decided to become a Seahawks fan."

Kanrok quitting on the Bears November 2016


 
TGR32
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04-18-17 02:27 PM - Post#1698062    


    In response to bubbalou

  • bubbalou Said:
Ron,I still feel that with mass collections such as what we have,in terms of complete games and fights,there is no way over 3000 items will be uploded on you tube in the near future.

What we have on youtube right now are "samples" of things like a few games here and there,usually the same games from different sources as well as the fights.

I think what you will continue ot see on you tube are samplings and a few things here and there,there is no way anyone would download all of their collection on there,for various reasons.







DYG is a decent indicator of what's out there and what's not on YT. Granted there is a margin of error where some footage exists on YT and has not been linked to to their data base, but for the most part those guys do a decent job of trying to keep up with linking everything up from YT to the fight.


I'd recommend if anyone is looking for a fight, to look there first, and find the link to YT if one exists. Your second check would be running a name on YT itself. There are some hockey sites on Facebook where I see footage pop up from guys just putting it directly to there.


Every other weekend I try to sneak in some archiving time if I'm not too busy. I pick a season and I'm placing clips that I made from my pending stuff into folders via season month and date. Its my own version of DYG loaded to my hard drive.


As I'm doing this, I can tell (for the most part) what fights have links to YT, via the link post there. I can tell if someone else has that fight if there is no link yet. Some will refer to watching it from their collection. So that's an indicator that its out there but just hasn't been uploaded yet.


There are some fights that have no comments, or just a listing from a box score. That's an indicator that they might be rare or hard to find. At the very least only a small group of people may have it.


I also have some stuff that isn't even listed on there yet. So I know that's really rare. They do a good job listing stuff from the box scores. Not all the preseason games though have available box scores. So I've got some stuff no one (other than the person who sent it to me) knows exists.


As far as a collector uploading their entire collections up there? Who has the time? I don't. You'd need a large group of guys working together to do that. I barely have enough time to work on my stuff. With the amount of footage I have, it would take forever to upload it all. I don't have that time nor do I have the motivation. Its taking me a long time to back it up as high quality to hard drives. Its going to take me a decade at the rate I'm going to back everything up. And that's with two working laptops. It takes about 35 to 40 minutes to backup a DVD to a hard drive at high quality. I'm using HQ MP4 as I like how they come out on DVD's if you burn stuff back to them.


I have a 4TB hard drive that I started to back stuff up about two years ago. I'm still filling it up with entire hockey fight DVD's and I'm on the last TB right now. This is with everything NHL from the golden age up through the 87-88 season. I just started a second one for NHL 88-89 through the 92-93 season.


Now here is a really cool thing. Once you have everything saved you can copy it to another external hard drive. So you can back up your work if one fails before it fails. I store the externals in a manner to keep the dust away when I'm not using them. I've written a date on them and every 5 years I'm going to copy and back up that work to another external HD. This is so the footage remains preserved and if there is a failure with one, there will always be a back up so nothing is lost.


My hope is someday I'll find an affordable reliable platform where I can save all this stuff to one source. I'm not into that cloud shit. Clouds can be hacked.


Now here is the thing about DVD and VHS. VHS degrades and DVD's can fail & rot. I've read that DVD's might not last as long as they thought. I had an issue with one of my DVD's lately. Good quality DVD from the 91-92. I went to go save it to a hard drive and there was scratch on the DVD. It would freeze on this one fight. I went to trouble shoot and found the original tape I had gotten during that season had degraded since I had saved it to DVD years ago. It now looked like shit. It was unbelievable what time had done to the quality. You guys with VHS are going to be surprised how much this stuff has degraded just through time. I've seen it in collections I've converted for people. I bought an old timer's collection of his masters - VHS. Stuff he had made. For the most part the collection was in good condition, but there were parts that were degraded due to time and rot. I told the guy I wished I had known him years earlier. I would have preserved it for him for free.


I was able to trouble shoot by saving the footage around the fight where it was freezing.


So you may find that some of the DVD's in your collection may fail over time. DVD's and CD's are susceptible to disc rot.


http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/cds-truth-cddvd-l onge...



You may think your collection is all set since its on DVD, but you or someone who gets it may find one day, that they pop in a DVD and it won't read. I know this has happened to other guys. I've had guys ask me if I had a copy of something they sent me because their's won't read. Happens more than it should and time is not on your side if you are not backing up your work.


There is a risk in buying any collection. The risk is higher with VHS. They are all corroding right now....even masters. Anyone who still has them, those things are sitting there right now rotting. They were not designed to last forever. So if you buy someone's older VHS, more than likely they are going to be at worse quality than when they were converted. If I ever sold my VHS tapes, and I have bins upon bins of them, You're going to be buying them at a degraded state. These things have corroded significantly since I've had them preserved onto DVD. You'd want to get the DVD's if they were preserved years ago.


Even with DVD's, there is a risk. I guarantee you we all have DVD's in our collection right now that we will put into a player that won't read. We were under the assumption that DVD's would last for our lives. But that is not the case.


Its taking me more time that I can imagine just to back it up to an external hard drives, cut the footage up into clips, label them. It takes a ton of time. No one guy is not going to put their entire collection up there if its that sizable. I know some have but not as large as ours and for the most part their quality blew. If they did, it would take a few years and maybe some help from others for really large collections like ours. I don't have the time or the motivation to do it myself.



"So happy I decided to become a Seahawks fan."

Kanrok quitting on the Bears November 2016


 
bubbalou
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04-18-17 05:29 PM - Post#1698070    


    In response to TGR32

Ron,I don't believe the NHL's long arm of the law would reach overseas to an offshore situation location

From what I have been told by qualified people in law and tax law is that there is no jurisdiction for the NHL if you are situated outside North America.

Local laws would apply and here in Southern Europe its a different ball game where tax evasion is the norm.

Here in Europe,copyright is a totally different ball game.

I believe if you register a website in Russia lets say,or any other offshore country,then of course North American law would not apply in these areas.

I believe if Broad Street Bully had been registered off shore there would be no problem.

Even if the NHL sent cease and desist letters to me in Europe or where ever,as long as I would be outside their jurisdiction,then I would just ignore it and continue with my business of selling.

That's why people set up off shore businesses to get around the legal tape and bureaucracy.

 
TGR32
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04-18-17 08:08 PM - Post#1698085    


    In response to bubbalou

  • bubbalou Said:
Ron,I don't believe the NHL's long arm of the law would reach overseas to an offshore situation location

From what I have been told by qualified people in law and tax law is that there is no jurisdiction for the NHL if you are situated outside North America.

Local laws would apply and here in Southern Europe its a different ball game where tax evasion is the norm.

Here in Europe,copyright is a totally different ball game.

I believe if you register a website in Russia lets say,or any other offshore country,then of course North American law would not apply in these areas.

I believe if Broad Street Bully had been registered off shore there would be no problem.

Even if the NHL sent cease and desist letters to me in Europe or where ever,as long as I would be outside their jurisdiction,then I would just ignore it and continue with my business of selling.

That's why people set up off shore businesses to get around the legal tape and bureaucracy.






Yeah...good luck on that. That's the type of thinking that got the other guys in trouble.
"So happy I decided to become a Seahawks fan."

Kanrok quitting on the Bears November 2016


 
Drewman
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04-25-17 04:10 PM - Post#1698423    


    In response to bubbalou

  • bubbalou Said:
Ron,I don't believe the NHL's long arm of the law would reach overseas to an offshore situation location

From what I have been told by qualified people in law and tax law is that there is no jurisdiction for the NHL if you are situated outside North America.

Local laws would apply and here in Southern Europe its a different ball game where tax evasion is the norm.

Here in Europe,copyright is a totally different ball game.

I believe if you register a website in Russia lets say,or any other offshore country,then of course North American law would not apply in these areas.

I believe if Broad Street Bully had been registered off shore there would be no problem.

Even if the NHL sent cease and desist letters to me in Europe or where ever,as long as I would be outside their jurisdiction,then I would just ignore it and continue with my business of selling.

That's why people set up off shore businesses to get around the legal tape and bureaucracy.





If this were even remotely true, then every knockoff trademark-infringing jersey, handbag, watch, whatever made in China would be totally okay and legal. And yet, they're not.


 
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