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Username Post: The Nashville Statement        (Topic#549296)
phantomenforcer
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08-30-17 05:22 PM - Post#1703592    



https://cbmw.org/nashville-statement

Quick version: Evangelical leaders release affirmations and denials about sexuality and marriage.

I'm curious to hear opinions for and against this. I purposefully left out articles pertaining to this story and linked directly to the subject at hand.

As much as I feel one way or the other about this, the "news" articles are not very subtle about how they think you should feel about this.
 
foolish
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08-30-17 05:52 PM - Post#1703593    


    In response to phantomenforcer

Well that is certainly nothing new.

As far as I'm concerned, they can do what they want inside the tax-free walls of their churches and the homes of their congregants. I'll even let them preach on street corners if it makes them happy.

Just keep that shit out of the secular world.


 
Johnny_Upton
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08-30-17 06:49 PM - Post#1703594    


    In response to foolish

8 & 10 seem to be in conflict

Not a fan of some evangelicals as the seem more concerned with the size of their flock Vs having a guiding set of values.
Dis somanumbatching country was founded so that the liberties of common patriotic citizens like me could not be taken away by a bunch of fargin iceholes... like yourselves.

#Filthystrong


 
Johnny_Upton
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08-30-17 06:50 PM - Post#1703595    


    In response to foolish

  • foolish Said:
Well that is certainly nothing new.

As far as I'm concerned, they can do what they want inside the tax-free walls of their churches and the homes of their congregants. I'll even let them preach on street corners if it makes them happy.

Just keep that shit out of the secular world.




So keep anyone with religious beliefs in the closet?

How tolerant...
Dis somanumbatching country was founded so that the liberties of common patriotic citizens like me could not be taken away by a bunch of fargin iceholes... like yourselves.

#Filthystrong


 
foolish
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08-30-17 06:58 PM - Post#1703597    


    In response to Johnny_Upton

  • Johnny_Upton Said:
  • foolish Said:
Well that is certainly nothing new.

As far as I'm concerned, they can do what they want inside the tax-free walls of their churches and the homes of their congregants. I'll even let them preach on street corners if it makes them happy.

Just keep that shit out of the secular world.




So keep anyone with religious beliefs in the closet?

How tolerant...




Not at all, by saying "street corners" I was poetically saying preach away. Just don't force people who don't believe to live according to your mythological deity's alleged proclamations.

I'll concede this for the topic of abortion as that is a debate over one groups definition of human life rather than mythological imperatives.


Edited by foolish on 08-30-17 06:59 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
 
Kanrok
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08-30-17 07:27 PM - Post#1703598    


    In response to phantomenforcer

Nothing new or novel here.

Perhaps the evangelicals felt it was necessary to publish these concepts.

I would gently direct them to the Catholic catechism.

Much more comprehensive.

“The greatest thing we can do just unite and love on each other and like, no barriers, no borders, like, we all need to just co-exist.”

- K. Perry


 
Johnny_Upton
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08-30-17 07:45 PM - Post#1703600    


    In response to foolish

  • foolish Said:
  • Johnny_Upton Said:
  • foolish Said:
Well that is certainly nothing new.

As far as I'm concerned, they can do what they want inside the tax-free walls of their churches and the homes of their congregants. I'll even let them preach on street corners if it makes them happy.

Just keep that shit out of the secular world.




So keep anyone with religious beliefs in the closet?

How tolerant...




Not at all, by saying "street corners" I was poetically saying preach away. Just don't force people who don't believe to live according to your mythological deity's alleged proclamations.

I'll concede this for the topic of abortion as that is a debate over one groups definition of human life rather than mythological imperatives.




Dont see the differences between an imaginary friends proclamations and an individual belief system - they're all personal preferences. You just happen to support one view over the other.

Sad your bigotry is showing thru
Dis somanumbatching country was founded so that the liberties of common patriotic citizens like me could not be taken away by a bunch of fargin iceholes... like yourselves.

#Filthystrong


 
foolish
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08-30-17 09:40 PM - Post#1703604    


    In response to Johnny_Upton

If you really can't differentiate between following your own belief system and someone else's that's forced on you, I think you may be a communist.
 
Kanrok
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08-30-17 10:21 PM - Post#1703606    


    In response to foolish

I am of the mind that I am incapable of imposing my beliefs on anyone else.

The most I can do is propose. Not impose.
“The greatest thing we can do just unite and love on each other and like, no barriers, no borders, like, we all need to just co-exist.”

- K. Perry


 
Johnny_Upton
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08-31-17 05:51 AM - Post#1703611    


    In response to foolish

  • foolish Said:
If you really can't differentiate between following your own belief system and someone else's that's forced on you, I think you may be a communist.



So, I can ignore any law that doesn't jive with my personal belief system? cool.

Dis somanumbatching country was founded so that the liberties of common patriotic citizens like me could not be taken away by a bunch of fargin iceholes... like yourselves.

#Filthystrong


 
phantomenforcer
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08-31-17 08:16 AM - Post#1703616    


    In response to Kanrok

I don't really understand the purpose of them publishing these articles. As Kanrok states, there is nothing new or novel here, just more of what you would expect from this type of group.

I can't imagine that the thought process is that they are going to bring people to their cause by publishing this. I think that all it serves to do is bolster the beliefs of their current followers and alienate those who are not.

It's as if they wanted to draw a line in the sand that was already there and everyone knew about already.

So then there is this fella that reminds me of a young Mr. Bean caricature (sorry I could not find the original video):



There are many examples of this type of video out there. They are all under the guise of educating folks into how to be understanding and accepting of their life choices (or is it lack or choice?).

Naturally the media will quickly condemn the folks who engineered the Nashville Statement, perhaps rightfully so, perhaps not. Nothing but heaps of praise and laurels of bravery will be bestowed upon the youtube warriors (youtube comments notwithstanding)

Some claim that these folks suffer from a mental illness, others say it is natural. It strikes me as narcissistic. I don't particularly care what you do with your life and if I ever met any of them I believe I could have a conversation with them as I could anyone else. But to presume that I should just completely change my thought process to suit your whims, fancies, feelings, beliefs, or biology seems over the top and a bit condescending.

Both extreme sides on this issue have an air of moral superiority and feel they need to educate us poor folk that just don't get it. It is mildly annoying.

One thing that I will credit the transgendered folk on is that they seem to all be on the same page with things for the most part. Although I'm willing to concede that that may be an illusion because they seem to demand different things all the time. It may be that the outlandish demands seem to blend together and appear to be a common cause.

On the other hand, religious organizations vary greatly on the subject. Here is an article of 7 responses to the Nashville Statement attributed to a Catholic Priest

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/...


"Re #Nashville Statement: I affirm: That God loves all LGBT people. I deny: That Jesus wants us to insult, judge or further marginalize them.
I affirm: That all of us are in need of conversion. I deny: That LGBT people should be in any way singled out as the chief or only sinners.
I affirm: That when Jesus encountered people on the margins he led with welcome not condemnation. I deny: That Jesus wants any more judging.
I affirm: That LGBT people are, by virtue of baptism, full members of the church. I deny: That God wants them to feel that they don’t belong
I affirm: That LGBT people have been made to feel like dirt by many churches. I deny: That Jesus wants us to add to their immense suffering.
I affirm: That LGBT people are some of the holiest people I know. I deny: That Jesus wants us to judge others, when he clearly forbade it.
I affirm that the Father loves LGBT people, the Son calls them and the Holy Spirit guides them. I deny nothing about God’s love for them."


While clearly promoting tolerance towards these folks, he does stop short of stating that they should be entitled to marriage which is something the Nashville Statement was clearly against.

So is this retort and anti-Nashville Statement or just a more tactfully written Nashville Statement. It's hard for me to know the intent of the author, but it seems to me he disagrees with much of the original Nashville Statement.

One thing I am sure of is that works like the Nashville Statement condemning that lifestyle and SJW accept us or else videos do nothing but cause divisiveness. One sided videos or articles will tend to be that way, but are so wildly popular compared to both sided collaborating together to make a video or article.
 
Kanrok
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08-31-17 08:26 AM - Post#1703617    


    In response to phantomenforcer

The rationale of the Nashville Statement is found in the preamble.

I don't disagree with the rationale for publishing their stance.

I also find that I agree with what Fr. Martin said in his response.

But you should know that Fr. Martin, a Jesuit, is in favor of changing the Catholic Church's stance on recognizing gay marriage.

I disagree with that.
“The greatest thing we can do just unite and love on each other and like, no barriers, no borders, like, we all need to just co-exist.”

- K. Perry


 
phantomenforcer
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08-31-17 09:22 AM - Post#1703621    


    In response to Kanrok

Maybe not understanding the thought process was the wrong choice of words for me. I get that they want to publish their beliefs as stated in the preamble.

I do not understand how they think this will work and not just cause divisiveness. Have they ever won over people this way? Maybe they have, I don't know, but my experience with human nature seems that being standoffish is not a way to convince others of your argument.

So is Martin a lone wolf in the church and does not represent a majority of opinions concerning the church's stance? Even if this is the case it supports my hypothesis that the church does not have singular stance.

I think the fact that there are so many different religions, many with multiple differing denominations with their own take on things hampers them.

In any case, as much as I am not on board with religion, the agenda being pushed by people in the videos is equally as distasteful to me, and I generally support their rights to equality when it comes to marriage and whatnot. But some of the stuff is ludicrous and makes it hard to take them seriously. I think that harms their progress when it comes to things that really matter.

 
Kanrok
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08-31-17 09:28 AM - Post#1703624    


    In response to phantomenforcer

I suspect they issued their statement because it forms the basis of their beliefs, and as far as I know, evangelicals don't have a central repository of the faith like the Catholic Church does. (See, e.g., the Catechism).

Which leads me to your second point, the Catholic Church does, in fact, have a single, solitary doctrine. Fr. Martin is but one of many Catholics espousing an heretical position.

He is not the first, nor will he be the last.

I would Bank on the fact that his position will never become doctrine in the Catholic Church.
“The greatest thing we can do just unite and love on each other and like, no barriers, no borders, like, we all need to just co-exist.”

- K. Perry


 
phantomenforcer
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08-31-17 09:32 AM - Post#1703625    


    In response to Kanrok

Does the catholic church condone what he does as it is a heretical position? Or do they just tolerate him?
 
Kanrok
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08-31-17 10:24 AM - Post#1703627    


    In response to phantomenforcer

  • phantomenforcer Said:
Does the catholic church condone what he does as it is a heretical position? Or do they just tolerate him?



That's a great question.

Under Pope Francis Fr. Martin is not only tolerated, in some quarters he's celebrated. He is actually a representative to the Vatican on some group whose name escapes me.

While I believe the camel's nose is under the tent on sexual matters (Amoris Latetia is problematic on this front, for instance) I do not believe this line of thinking will ever be condoned.

“The greatest thing we can do just unite and love on each other and like, no barriers, no borders, like, we all need to just co-exist.”

- K. Perry


 
phantomenforcer
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08-31-17 10:51 AM - Post#1703628    


    In response to Kanrok

  • Kanrok Said:
  • phantomenforcer Said:
Does the catholic church condone what he does as it is a heretical position? Or do they just tolerate him?



That's a great question.

Under Pope Francis Fr. Martin is not only tolerated, in some quarters he's celebrated. He is actually a representative to the Vatican on some group whose name escapes me.

While I believe the camel's nose is under the tent on sexual matters (Amoris Latetia is problematic on this front, for instance) I do not believe this line of thinking will ever be condoned.





Interesting. So he's not necessarily condoned, but is tolerated and in some circles, celebrated.

Could this be the beginning of a slippery slope for the catholic church if his ideas start to take root and spread?


What's next, women priests and ribeye Fridays?
 
foolish
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08-31-17 11:23 AM - Post#1703629    


    In response to Johnny_Upton

  • Johnny_Upton Said:
  • foolish Said:
If you really can't differentiate between following your own belief system and someone else's that's forced on you, I think you may be a communist.



So, I can ignore any law that doesn't jive with my personal belief system? cool.





Ummm...not sure how you got there.

But I think we DO have a long history of successfully challenging laws that offend our religious sensibilities. I'm thinking Hobby Lobby knows a bit about it. No one should be forced to perform against their religion. Thats not the same as forcing non-believers to follow the rules of your denomination.

 
foolish
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08-31-17 11:26 AM - Post#1703630    


    In response to Kanrok

  • Kanrok Said:
The rationale of the Nashville Statement is found in the preamble.

I don't disagree with the rationale for publishing their stance.

I also find that I agree with what Fr. Martin said in his response.

But you should know that Fr. Martin, a Jesuit, is in favor of changing the Catholic Church's stance on recognizing gay marriage.

I disagree with that.



KR - do you believe that gays shouldn't be able to marry? or just not marry in a church?
 
Kanrok
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08-31-17 11:56 AM - Post#1703631    


    In response to phantomenforcer

  • phantomenforcer Said:
  • Kanrok Said:
  • phantomenforcer Said:
Does the catholic church condone what he does as it is a heretical position? Or do they just tolerate him?



That's a great question.

Under Pope Francis Fr. Martin is not only tolerated, in some quarters he's celebrated. He is actually a representative to the Vatican on some group whose name escapes me.

While I believe the camel's nose is under the tent on sexual matters (Amoris Latetia is problematic on this front, for instance) I do not believe this line of thinking will ever be condoned.





Interesting. So he's not necessarily condoned, but is tolerated and in some circles, celebrated.

Could this be the beginning of a slippery slope for the catholic church if his ideas start to take root and spread?


What's next, women priests and ribeye Fridays?



The problem with his ideas taking root and spreading is that it would undercut the church's doctrine on sexual activity. The camel's nose is already under the tent with Pope Francis. His paper "Amoris Letitia" has opened the door to divorced and remarried Catholics to take communion. If that concept takes root, then the whole basis for chastity and sex within a sacramental marriage is undercut.

I believe there is a faction within the Vatican that wants the Church to recognize gay marriage.

On the issue of women (or is it womyn?) priests, I did some research a couple of years ago, and if I recall it correctly, technically speaking a woman can be a Cardinal, but not a priest, bishop or deacon. It is theoretically (and theologically) possible because the position of Cardinal is not an "ordained" class.

We can still eat meat on Friday, except during Lent.

I like that discipline.
“The greatest thing we can do just unite and love on each other and like, no barriers, no borders, like, we all need to just co-exist.”

- K. Perry


 
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