hockey-fights.com
Username Post: Justifying ending DACA        (Topic#549306)
foolish
superstar
Total Posts: 3001
*
Average Post Ranks%:             
User Rank%:                       
09-05-17 04:33 PM - Post#1703760    



Please someone give me a fact-based logical reason for the ending of this program. It can't possibly be as heartless as it seems.
 
PuckRogue
moderator
Total Posts: 37011
*
Average Post Ranks%:             
User Rank%:                       
09-05-17 04:52 PM - Post#1703762    


    In response to foolish

http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/im migration/...

Not my opinion, because I haven't taken the time to inform myself enough to have one, but here's someone else's reasons.

Word from honest news sources is that Trump will do away with DACA, which is just a shitty piece of stop-gap legislation, and had told Congress to work up something that actually works. That's certainly not how #fakenews is reporting it.

-PR


 
foolish
superstar
Total Posts: 3001
*
Average Post Ranks%:             
User Rank%:                       
09-05-17 05:32 PM - Post#1703764    


    In response to PuckRogue

  • PuckRogue Said:
http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/im migration/...

Not my opinion, because I haven't taken the time to inform myself enough to have one, but here's someone else's reasons.

Word from honest news sources is that Trump will do away with DACA, which is just a shitty piece of stop-gap legislation, and had told Congress to work up something that actually works. That's certainly not how #fakenews is reporting it.

-PR



After I started the thread I read that too. I feel less shitty about this after reading that the gov has punted on this 30 times (or 24 or whatever). So DJT makes this stand, and basically gives Congress 6 months to fix this before we start sending fed into middle schools to chuck out kids.... I can live with this to an extent.... wish I had some faith in Congress.
 
Kanrok
legend
Total Posts: 21179
*
Average Post Ranks%:             
User Rank%:                       
09-05-17 06:50 PM - Post#1703766    


    In response to foolish

I am generally in favor of a DACA-type program.

What Obama did was extra-constitutional. I believe that he agreed that what he did by issuing that order was not legal. Separation of powers and all that. It was probably 80% political for Obama. I hold open the possibility that he really does care for people.

I would say that what Trump is doing is 100% political. There appear to be two reasons he is doing this. One, he is keeping a political promise. Two, he is turning up the heat on republicans, especially those who have an election to win in 2018.

He is making them show their cards. Actually quite impressive.

This kind of law is supposed to be debated and either passed or not by Congress.

At the end of the day, there will probably be a compromise bill.
“The greatest thing we can do just unite and love on each other and like, no barriers, no borders, like, we all need to just co-exist.”

- K. Perry


 
Canucko29
legend
Total Posts: 13524
*
Average Post Ranks%:             
User Rank%:                       
09-05-17 08:26 PM - Post#1703771    


    In response to foolish

  • foolish Said:
  • PuckRogue Said:
http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/im migration/...

Not my opinion, because I haven't taken the time to inform myself enough to have one, but here's someone else's reasons.

Word from honest news sources is that Trump will do away with DACA, which is just a shitty piece of stop-gap legislation, and had told Congress to work up something that actually works. That's certainly not how #fakenews is reporting it.

-PR



After I started the thread I read that too. I feel less shitty about this after reading that the gov has punted on this 30 times (or 24 or whatever). So DJT makes this stand, and basically gives Congress 6 months to fix this before we start sending fed into middle schools to chuck out kids.... I can live with this to an extent.... wish I had some faith in Congress.



That was actually a very good article. Amnesty is a good idea in some respects, but the criteria has to be thought out more along the lines of strategic criteria as opposed to tugging on the heartstrings. Some of the most devastating legislation over the past century had great intentions and backwards results.

I couldn't care less what college students think on this issue, speaking to the walkouts. They have usurped my patience.


 
Badlands92
legend
Total Posts: 13716
*
Average Post Ranks%:             
User Rank%:                       
09-05-17 09:17 PM - Post#1703773    


    In response to Canucko29

Right, Canucko. Public policy should never be formed on human emotion. That's a disaster.

According to Ben Shapiro, this will be a loss-loss for Trump & Republicans. Trump has no plans to mass deport, so his base will be upset with that inaction. Regardless, the loons on the left love this because they can virtue signal about white supremacy, rac...well, you know it by now.

According to Shapiro, Trump wants to stick this on Congress who really has no incentive to make a policy change. Therefore, Trump can shield blame from himself when nothing happens, all the while infuriating loyal Republican voters more and more and still having half the country calling him Hitler every time he chews his food.

Fun times.

Oh, and keep this in mind. The average age of a DACA recipient is 22. So, for every 12 year old child being dragged from class straight into the ovens, there's a 32 year old reaping the benefits of DACA. So, we need to keep in mind that not EVERYONE in this program is foolish's 5th grade girl with pigtails and a back-pack humming Somewhere Over the Rainbow.
The man who passes the sentence should swing the sword.




Edited by Badlands92 on 09-05-17 09:18 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
 
HEAVYWEIGHT
legend
Total Posts: 10505
*
Average Post Ranks%:             
User Rank%:                       
09-05-17 09:31 PM - Post#1703774    


    In response to Badlands92

Why do people flood the border from a failed country, then scream racism?


 
Baldridge
legend
Total Posts: 11956
*
Average Post Ranks%:             
User Rank%:                       
09-06-17 05:04 AM - Post#1703777    


    In response to Badlands92

  • Badlands92 Said:
Right, Canucko. Public policy should never be formed on human emotion. That's a disaster.





Like the Muslim travel ban?....
"I can't prove any of it"-NYRfan


 
Pete
legend
Total Posts: 10343
*
Average Post Ranks%:             
User Rank%:                       
 
09-06-17 09:55 AM - Post#1703780    


    In response to Baldridge

Obama was against DACA (many times) before he was for it. It was unconstitutional and supposedly temporary. Again, the U.S. government has kicked the immigration can down the road at least as far back as H.W. Bush. How many times have you heard "secure our borders first"? That's a rhetorical question, foolish.

I like this as a bargaining chip for future negotiation. I also like the notion that was raised by Liz Peek at Fox News to trade off, i.e., end birthright citizenship for some form of amnesty for these so called dreamers. Some estimates show as many as 275,000 babies born to undocumented mothers in the U.S. in 2014. Get rid of automatic citizenship for undocumented births.
 
foolish
superstar
Total Posts: 3001
*
Average Post Ranks%:             
User Rank%:                       
09-06-17 10:49 AM - Post#1703782    


    In response to Kanrok

  • Kanrok Said:


He is making them show their cards. Actually quite impressive.





I get that, I almost like it. However, he is also gambling with the lives of 800k people who live here and may not know anything or anyone about whatever country they came from.

We really just need a legit path to legal entry and eventual citizenship for folks who just want to come here and work hard. I really hope this pushes the gov to do something about that. We're seeing now (in the ag sector, in the seasonal holiday workforce) that there are a ton of jobs American's are to lazy/entitled to perform. Someone needs to do the work.

If Trump can turn this into real commonsense laws that are just anti-immigration, it will significantly change my impression of him
 
PuckRogue
moderator
Total Posts: 37011
*
Average Post Ranks%:             
User Rank%:                       
09-06-17 11:33 AM - Post#1703783    


    In response to foolish

He's gambling or he's prepping to throw the assholes in Congress under the bus? The latter would be spectacular and if he segues right into a term limit order, I'll fucking blow the guy.

-PR


 
Pete
legend
Total Posts: 10343
*
Average Post Ranks%:             
User Rank%:                       
 
09-06-17 04:57 PM - Post#1703793    


    In response to foolish

  • foolish Said:
  • Kanrok Said:


He is making them show their cards. Actually quite impressive.





I get that, I almost like it. However, he is also gambling with the lives of 800k people who live here and may not know anything or anyone about whatever country they came from.

We really just need a legit path to legal entry and eventual citizenship for folks who just want to come here and work hard. I really hope this pushes the gov to do something about that. We're seeing now (in the ag sector, in the seasonal holiday workforce) that there are a ton of jobs American's are to lazy/entitled to perform. Someone needs to do the work.

If Trump can turn this into real commonsense laws that are just anti-immigration, it will significantly change my impression of him



Maybe the Ag sector and the seasonal holiday retailers should, you know, raise wages as they ought to in order to balance supply and demand as opposed to take advantage of illegal, unskilled workers.

And there are plenty of "children" in that widely reported 800K number who came here when they were already in their teens. Libs always fall for the "think about the children" narrative.
 
foolish
superstar
Total Posts: 3001
*
Average Post Ranks%:             
User Rank%:                       
09-06-17 05:07 PM - Post#1703796    


    In response to Pete

  • Pete Said:
  • foolish Said:
  • Kanrok Said:


He is making them show their cards. Actually quite impressive.





I get that, I almost like it. However, he is also gambling with the lives of 800k people who live here and may not know anything or anyone about whatever country they came from.

We really just need a legit path to legal entry and eventual citizenship for folks who just want to come here and work hard. I really hope this pushes the gov to do something about that. We're seeing now (in the ag sector, in the seasonal holiday workforce) that there are a ton of jobs American's are to lazy/entitled to perform. Someone needs to do the work.

If Trump can turn this into real commonsense laws that are just anti-immigration, it will significantly change my impression of him



Maybe the Ag sector and the seasonal holiday retailers should, you know, raise wages as they ought to in order to balance supply and demand as opposed to take advantage of illegal, unskilled workers.

And there are plenty of "children" in that widely reported 800K number who came here when they were already in their teens. Libs always fall for the "think about the children" narrative.



Supply and Demand? When you make the supply more expensive, the demand will just go to foreign options. That'll be great, right? You don't think Mexian oranges and vacations in the Dominican won't demolish the Florida citrus industry and the south beach hotels?

Or do yo want to jack up the socialism and add a bunch of tariffs or subsidies to keep America competitive when it can't be on its own?

So there were plenty of teens in the dreamers.. who gives a shit, they're still kids. And there were lots of younger-than-teen too. Why do conservatives want to dismiss the whole b/c a portion of it was close to age-of-majority?

Edited by foolish on 09-06-17 05:10 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
 
Badlands92
legend
Total Posts: 13716
*
Average Post Ranks%:             
User Rank%:                       
09-06-17 06:18 PM - Post#1703799    


    In response to foolish

Wasn't the prediction from the shrieking foolishes of the country that once Trump took office and illegals were too afraid to leave the house to man the crops, that we'd start to pay $7 for an orange?

According to the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services, the number of dreamers who have stopped dreaming (i.e. gotten kicked off the program) due to criminal activity has seen a 30% spike this year. 2015-2016 nearly doubled. The numbers are minuscule as compared to the entire program roll call, but it supports the narrative that...

Leftists are willing to ignore negative acts, no matter how costly and heinous and detrimental to society, committed by the few in order to cheerlead the positive acts committed by the many. This is obviously why the left always points to the aspiring abortion doctor or civil rights attorney or gender studies professor as the example of all the dreamers and how they benefit this great US of A.
The man who passes the sentence should swing the sword.


 
foolish
superstar
Total Posts: 3001
*
Average Post Ranks%:             
User Rank%:                       
09-06-17 06:25 PM - Post#1703802    


    In response to Badlands92

The dreamers kicked off the program are irrelevant, no? They aren't dreamers anymore. why would you mention that fact? Seems like an unrelated fact to try to imply that the dreamers are criminals which is actually not the case at all - crime equals removal from program. Seems like you're looking very hard for a narrative that supports your wish to end the program regardless of the human cost.

We haven't started paying $7/orange yet. ...... does that mean we never will? We also haven't got a wall, repealed ACA or approved a budget, yet the lack of those things doesn't make Trump a failure to the righties, does it?
 
Badlands92
legend
Total Posts: 13716
*
Average Post Ranks%:             
User Rank%:                       
09-06-17 06:38 PM - Post#1703803    


    In response to foolish

Actually, dickhead, I go right down the middle on this one. I see both sides of the argument. I just happen to be countering your liberal Utopian angle, as usual.

If I'd wanted to come out and say they're all criminals I would have. I specifically pointed out that those kicked off the program for being criminals is a small amount.

Will you just come out and admit that you are OK with the thousands of American citizens killed every year by illegal immigrants if it means the majority of the good illegal immigrants can reap the benefits this country has to offer?

I know that objectivity is a trait not possessed by the left, but yes, the lack of wall & health care is troubling to MANY on the right. And sure, possibly paying $7 for an orange in 2036 really makes your argument.

Yah, what about their dreams? http://www.dailywire.com/news/20618/americans- kill...
The man who passes the sentence should swing the sword.




Edited by Badlands92 on 09-06-17 06:56 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
 
foolish
superstar
Total Posts: 3001
*
Average Post Ranks%:             
User Rank%:                       
09-06-17 07:04 PM - Post#1703804    


    In response to Badlands92

Name calling? How positively trumpian!

Down the middle in this? you cold have fooled me, you pulled irrelevant shit to make it look darker and now you're posting examples of how the program failed.... and extrapolating it to thousands of murders a year.

I'm actually on board with DJT on this one. I didn't understand it at first, ut after reading about it, and PR/KR giving reasonable info on it, its clear that Trump is attempting to right something that was wrong for a long time.

....
....
... cockservative!
 
Badlands92
legend
Total Posts: 13716
*
Average Post Ranks%:             
User Rank%:                       
09-06-17 09:18 PM - Post#1703815    


    In response to foolish

You're an irritating gnat, what can I say? How soon until you backtrack to "hehe, I'm just trolling".

Thousands of Americans are killed by illegals (not Dreamers) every year, yes. As of 2011, the US saw over 16,000 murders a year. It's estimated that 12% of murder sentences are handed down to illegals, and there alone you have almost 2000 murders. That number probably doesn't include DUI/vehicular homicides committed by illegals. So thousands is accurate.

You still haven't address my question. You are OK with those American lives lost for the greater good of the illegal population, yes?
The man who passes the sentence should swing the sword.


 
Pete
legend
Total Posts: 10343
*
Average Post Ranks%:             
User Rank%:                       
 
09-07-17 08:27 AM - Post#1703827    


    In response to foolish

  • foolish Said:
  • Pete Said:
  • foolish Said:
  • Kanrok Said:


He is making them show their cards. Actually quite impressive.





I get that, I almost like it. However, he is also gambling with the lives of 800k people who live here and may not know anything or anyone about whatever country they came from.

We really just need a legit path to legal entry and eventual citizenship for folks who just want to come here and work hard. I really hope this pushes the gov to do something about that. We're seeing now (in the ag sector, in the seasonal holiday workforce) that there are a ton of jobs American's are to lazy/entitled to perform. Someone needs to do the work.

If Trump can turn this into real commonsense laws that are just anti-immigration, it will significantly change my impression of him



Maybe the Ag sector and the seasonal holiday retailers should, you know, raise wages as they ought to in order to balance supply and demand as opposed to take advantage of illegal, unskilled workers.

And there are plenty of "children" in that widely reported 800K number who came here when they were already in their teens. Libs always fall for the "think about the children" narrative.



Supply and Demand? When you make the supply more expensive, the demand will just go to foreign options. That'll be great, right? You don't think Mexian oranges and vacations in the Dominican won't demolish the Florida citrus industry and the south beach hotels?

Or do yo want to jack up the socialism and add a bunch of tariffs or subsidies to keep America competitive when it can't be on its own?

So there were plenty of teens in the dreamers.. who gives a shit, they're still kids. And there were lots of younger-than-teen too. Why do conservatives want to dismiss the whole b/c a portion of it was close to age-of-majority?



2 points:

1. On the second, my point is that lefties always over dramatize legal issues with their "feelings", and it doesn't always work out so well, does it?
2. Is every dreamer an orange picker or a maid? Free markets baby! If oranges become too expensive then we'll find an alternative. If you think the tourism industry is being buoyed by the cost of labor for housekeeping, then I don't know what to tell you.

I didn't think you proggies were so status quo
 
foolish
superstar
Total Posts: 3001
*
Average Post Ranks%:             
User Rank%:                       
09-07-17 09:08 AM - Post#1703828    


    In response to Pete

  • Pete Said:

2 points:

1. On the second, my point is that lefties always over dramatize legal issues with their "feelings", and it doesn't always work out so well, does it?
2. Is every dreamer an orange picker or a maid? Free markets baby! If oranges become too expensive then we'll find an alternative. If you think the tourism industry is being buoyed by the cost of labor for housekeeping, then I don't know what to tell you.

I didn't think you proggies were so status quo




1. Don't disagree with you at all. This case is a good example. The idea of DJT ending this allowance was met with hand wringing. But if you look at the details (and Obama's own admission) its not a legal program. DJT is forcing a legalization...... or so I hope..... The lefty media is all about expulsions, but this doesn't have to be that (and I bet DJT backs down on it if congress can't get something done).

2. If the right is going to paint every illegal as a gang member, I'm going to paint them all as diligent workers. Obviously neither idea is completely true. If you're good with the free markets am too... though I fear that the America of today lacks the will to truly compete without the gov stepping in to level the playing field. Regarding tourism, there were facilities all up and down the coasts that couldn't find staff this summer. They jack wages to $25/hr, they'll find staff.... tourism is little family run restaurants and hotels too!

As for the status quo bit - I'm nowhere near as liberal as I come off here. I'm more libertarian than anything.

Edited by foolish on 09-07-17 09:13 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
 
foolish
superstar
Total Posts: 3001
*
Average Post Ranks%:             
User Rank%:                       
09-07-17 09:19 AM - Post#1703830    


    In response to Badlands92

  • Badlands92 Said:
You're an irritating gnat, what can I say? How soon until you backtrack to "hehe, I'm just trolling".

Thousands of Americans are killed by illegals (not Dreamers) every year, yes. As of 2011, the US saw over 16,000 murders a year. It's estimated that 12% of murder sentences are handed down to illegals, and there alone you have almost 2000 murders. That number probably doesn't include DUI/vehicular homicides committed by illegals. So thousands is accurate.

You still haven't address my question. You are OK with those American lives lost for the greater good of the illegal population, yes?



Not trolling here at all. I find your statement that I'm irritating - seemingly because my opinion differs from yours - to be a very telling little nugget of info. Do you only surround yourself with opinions that are like your own? Worried that differing opinions will bruise your ego? very snowflake-ish of you!

And to your question I'm worried about all murder. Americans, mexicans, chinese, I don't really care, we all kill each other at an unacceptable rate - ALL LIVES MATTER!!!! (see what I did there?).

My turn on the questions: Please show me how dreamers killed thousands of Americans in the last year..... or even easier, please demonstrate that Dreamers commit murder at a rate higher than normal americans.
 
Kanrok
legend
Total Posts: 21179
*
Average Post Ranks%:             
User Rank%:                       
09-07-17 10:31 AM - Post#1703831    


    In response to foolish

I made the claim (here and elsewhere) that Trump would back some form of amnesty.

I am sticking by that.

Especially in light of his recent sucking up to Pelosi and Schumer.

Mark my words: there will be some form of amnesty bill signed by Trump.
“The greatest thing we can do just unite and love on each other and like, no barriers, no borders, like, we all need to just co-exist.”

- K. Perry


 
foolish
superstar
Total Posts: 3001
*
Average Post Ranks%:             
User Rank%:                       
09-07-17 10:45 AM - Post#1703832    


    In response to Kanrok

  • Kanrok Said:
I made the claim (here and elsewhere) that Trump would back some form of amnesty.

I am sticking by that.

Especially in light of his recent sucking up to Pelosi and Schumer.

Mark my words: there will be some form of amnesty bill signed by Trump.



Do you think it will be based in law? Or an EO-type deal like Obama did?
 
NYRfan
legend
Total Posts: 34529
*
Average Post Ranks%:             
User Rank%:                       
09-07-17 10:52 AM - Post#1703833    


    In response to foolish

CACA (childish acting criminal adults) are portrayed by the left as children, when they're mostly 20-30 years old. Strike one.

They are here because their parents were criminals. Strike 2.

Their parents are abandoning them and expecting somebody else to care for them when they get deported, instead of acting like parents from the civilized world and keeping their family together.
Strike 3.

Except for the tiny # of actual children, they have all been ignoring the legal immigration process for 15-25 years. Because of 'entitled'. Strike 4.

Strikeout, thrown out of the game, and thrown out of the country.

Oh, and every country sending them ...... kicks the shit out of illegals in their countries. Strikes 5 through 10.


 
foolish
superstar
Total Posts: 3001
*
Average Post Ranks%:             
User Rank%:                       
09-07-17 11:17 AM - Post#1703834    


    In response to NYRfan

  • NYRfan Said:


They are here because their parents were criminals. Strike 2.

Their parents are abandoning them and expecting somebody else to care for them when they get deported, instead of acting like parents from the civilized world and keeping their family together.
Strike 3.

Except for the tiny # of actual children, they have all been ignoring the legal immigration process for 15-25 years. Because of 'entitled'. Strike 4.




How could you possibly hold things against a child brought into this country? I don't really give a fuck how old they are now, or whether someone jumped a fence and stabbed someone else, these were children who probably don't know anything about, or anyone in, there native country. You have no fucking heart.

DACA might have been a broken idea from day 1, but there needs to be something to let people come into the country without a professional degree or a pile of cash. I would bet that you and most of your hard right buddies come from families who could have never immigrated under today's laws.

Good for DJT for trying push for a legal framework for these people.

 
Kanrok
legend
Total Posts: 21179
*
Average Post Ranks%:             
User Rank%:                       
09-07-17 12:16 PM - Post#1703837    


    In response to foolish

  • foolish Said:
  • Kanrok Said:
I made the claim (here and elsewhere) that Trump would back some form of amnesty.

I am sticking by that.

Especially in light of his recent sucking up to Pelosi and Schumer.

Mark my words: there will be some form of amnesty bill signed by Trump.



Do you think it will be based in law? Or an EO-type deal like Obama did?



My hope is that it is done constitutionally.

Meaning that it should be done through congress with the president signing the bill.

I don't support an executive order because it does not comport with the constitution.

Trump screwed up when he said that if congress doesn't act he'll revisit DACA. He's trying to play both sides of the fence and by doing so, took away a huge bargaining chip.
“The greatest thing we can do just unite and love on each other and like, no barriers, no borders, like, we all need to just co-exist.”

- K. Perry


 
haymaker36
Moderator
Total Posts: 15918
*
Average Post Ranks%:             
User Rank%:                       
09-07-17 01:31 PM - Post#1703841    


    In response to Kanrok

https://bipartisanpolicy.org/wp-content/uploads/20 ...

DACA recipients are not a drain on the economy, they bolster it. You can hold them being illegal against their parents if you want, but whether they are children or teens when they come here, it makes little sense to remove them from our economy/society. Even if it were just for the humanitarian PR, one would think Trump would be on board with this. When you throw in the fact that they are a net gain economically, it's a no brainer. And Trump knows this. It's why he's letting Pelosi dictate tweets for him on the subject.

It's probably different where many of you live, but we obviously have many, many DACA recipients in our schools and workforce in California. I'm 34 and if you're my age you probably know quite a few of them, whether you know it or not. One of my very, very good friends is a DACA recipient (who is lucky enough to be on the verge of a green card next week). He has had to work incredibly hard to become a "legitimate American," went to our schools his whole life, has a good job, and pays his fair share in taxes. I'm incredibly proud of him. Anecdotes aside, I can't think of one good reason to remove them from our country, unless you like a smaller tax base, or enjoy taking people out of our country that want to live by American values and are willing to work to achieve a better life than their parents. Unless you are a cunt from TN that wants to compare them to criminal fecal matter for no apparent reason.
"I may be an emotional cripple but am becoming a strong, burly fucking hunk of a man."

-Crowder


 
PuckRogue
moderator
Total Posts: 37011
*
Average Post Ranks%:             
User Rank%:                       
09-07-17 02:00 PM - Post#1703842    


    In response to Kanrok

  • Kanrok Said:
I made the claim (here and elsewhere) that Trump would back some form of amnesty.

I am sticking by that.

Especially in light of his recent sucking up to Pelosi and Schumer.

Mark my words: there will be some form of amnesty bill signed by Trump.



Not until the 11th hour when he can "cash in" on the Hispanic vote, which...as I've repeatedly mentioned, is overwhelmingly "conservative" and would love to vote "Republican".

-PR


 
PuckRogue
moderator
Total Posts: 37011
*
Average Post Ranks%:             
User Rank%:                       
09-07-17 02:03 PM - Post#1703843    


    In response to haymaker36

  • haymaker36 Said:
https://bipartisanpolicy.org/wp-content/uploads/20 ...

DACA recipients are not a drain on the economy, they bolster it. You can hold them being illegal against their parents if you want, but whether they are children or teens when they come here, it makes little sense to remove them from our economy/society. Even if it were just for the humanitarian PR, one would think Trump would be on board with this. When you throw in the fact that they are a net gain economically, it's a no brainer. And Trump knows this. It's why he's letting Pelosi dictate tweets for him on the subject.

It's probably different where many of you live, but we obviously have many, many DACA recipients in our schools and workforce in California. I'm 34 and if you're my age you probably know quite a few of them, whether you know it or not. One of my very, very good friends is a DACA recipient (who is lucky enough to be on the verge of a green card next week). He has had to work incredibly hard to become a "legitimate American," went to our schools his whole life, has a good job, and pays his fair share in taxes. I'm incredibly proud of him. Anecdotes aside, I can't think of one good reason to remove them from our country, unless you like a smaller tax base, or enjoy taking people out of our country that want to live by American values and are willing to work to achieve a better life than their parents. Unless you are a cunt from TN that wants to compare them to criminal fecal matter for no apparent reason.



He's only adding Pelosi-approved Tweets because the media has been portraying this as "running kids out of the country" and the sheeple believe that garbage. Apparently, even Pelosi is over the MSM BS, or maybe she's just over having to hear it from her idiot constituents who believe the bullshit that the media is feeding them...

-PR


 
PuckRogue
moderator
Total Posts: 37011
*
Average Post Ranks%:             
User Rank%:                       
09-07-17 02:05 PM - Post#1703844    


    In response to Kanrok

  • Kanrok Said:
  • foolish Said:
  • Kanrok Said:
I made the claim (here and elsewhere) that Trump would back some form of amnesty.

I am sticking by that.

Especially in light of his recent sucking up to Pelosi and Schumer.

Mark my words: there will be some form of amnesty bill signed by Trump.



Do you think it will be based in law? Or an EO-type deal like Obama did?



My hope is that it is done constitutionally.

Meaning that it should be done through congress with the president signing the bill.

I don't support an executive order because it does not comport with the constitution.

Trump screwed up when he said that if congress doesn't act he'll revisit DACA. He's trying to play both sides of the fence and by doing so, took away a huge bargaining chip.




If the MSM had the ability to be honest about what he was trying to do here, everyone would be holding the feet of Congress to the fire...unfortunately, that's not what happened and many Americans don't seem to be willing to take the time to read up on something enough to educate themselves...

-PR


 
Marcelino Jeopardy
superstar
Total Posts: 4178
*
Average Post Ranks%:             
User Rank%:                       
09-07-17 02:18 PM - Post#1703845    


    In response to PuckRogue

  • PuckRogue Said:


Not until the 11th hour when he can "cash in" on the Hispanic vote, which...as I've repeatedly mentioned, is overwhelmingly "conservative" and would love to vote "Republican".

-PR



Is that true? I always thought Mexicans voted overwhelmingly democrat, and Cubans voted Republican.
 
foolish
superstar
Total Posts: 3001
*
Average Post Ranks%:             
User Rank%:                       
09-07-17 02:24 PM - Post#1703846    


    In response to Marcelino Jeopardy

  • Marcelino Jeopardy Said:
  • PuckRogue Said:


Not until the 11th hour when he can "cash in" on the Hispanic vote, which...as I've repeatedly mentioned, is overwhelmingly "conservative" and would love to vote "Republican".

-PR



Is that true? I always thought Mexicans voted overwhelmingly democrat, and Cubans voted Republican.



I think PR is alluding the the very accurate fact that Mexicans by-and-large are conservative on a lot of social issues (abortion, gay stuff) and probably a lot of economic ones (they're not free spenders) but the demonization of them in recent GOP platforms pushes them to vote democrat. If the GOP could shed that image (I think its well earned, but I know most here would disagree) they'd probably pick up a LOT of those votes....
 
PuckRogue
moderator
Total Posts: 37011
*
Average Post Ranks%:             
User Rank%:                       
09-07-17 02:58 PM - Post#1703847    


    In response to foolish

Mexicans are almost all Catholics. Just sayin'!

-PR


 
foolish
superstar
Total Posts: 3001
*
Average Post Ranks%:             
User Rank%:                       
09-07-17 03:46 PM - Post#1703850    


    In response to PuckRogue

Si Senor!
 
Pete
legend
Total Posts: 10343
*
Average Post Ranks%:             
User Rank%:                       
 
09-07-17 04:55 PM - Post#1703854    


    In response to foolish

Any takers on abolishing the "automatic citizenship simply if you're born here" idea?
 
foolish
superstar
Total Posts: 3001
*
Average Post Ranks%:             
User Rank%:                       
09-07-17 05:27 PM - Post#1703858    


    In response to Pete

  • Pete Said:
Any takers on abolishing the "automatic citizenship simply if you're born here" idea?



You mean if you are born to non-citizens right?

What does that mean for someone like me - Canadian and legal, my twins are coming in 4 weeks, if my wife wasn't a citizen, are you suggesting my children would have no citizenship at birth? My wife is American, so it doesnt actually apply to me, but say she wasn't one of you. My kid would live in the USA without any citizenship at all? Or would have to apply for a visa? I don't know how much a toddler brings productivity wise......

I know Canada and the USA are the only countries with birthright citizenship. If that were to go away I don't really have a super huge problem with it.
 
PuckRogue
moderator
Total Posts: 37011
*
Average Post Ranks%:             
User Rank%:                       
09-07-17 09:32 PM - Post#1703862    


    In response to foolish

Pete's going with two "illegal" parents, I'm sure.

In that case? I don't think the child truly has any rights to be an American. Not trying to sound cold, but that's it.

If some Germans came to the US on vacation and had their baby here, I don't think the baby is an American.

-PR


 
Peatycap
Moderator
Total Posts: 30025
*
Average Post Ranks%:             
User Rank%:                       
09-08-17 10:05 AM - Post#1703878    


    In response to PuckRogue

LA, NY, and CHI... liberal hotbeds... illegal hotbeds. Who would've guessed?



According to the Washington Examiner:

The House late Wednesday voted to block federal transportation and housing funding from cities and states that choose not to cooperate with federal officials on immigration.

No worries... Cher will give you a bunk bed. LMAO!


 
NYRfan
legend
Total Posts: 34529
*
Average Post Ranks%:             
User Rank%:                       
09-08-17 11:02 AM - Post#1703881    


    In response to foolish

  • foolish Said:
  • Pete Said:
Any takers on abolishing the "automatic citizenship simply if you're born here" idea?



You mean if you are born to non-citizens right?

What does that mean for someone like me - Canadian and legal, my twins are coming in 4 weeks, if my wife wasn't a citizen, are you suggesting my children would have no citizenship at birth? My wife is American, so it doesnt actually apply to me, but say she wasn't one of you. My kid would live in the USA without any citizenship at all? Or would have to apply for a visa? I don't know how much a toddler brings productivity wise......

I know Canada and the USA are the only countries with birthright citizenship. If that were to go away I don't really have a super huge problem with it.


This is a good continuation of my earlier point, which apparently enraged and saddened you.

If you and your wife are here illegally, never bother to use the proper immigration system that's sitting right there where you live for 25 years, bring kids and never bother to use the system to get them legal (and they continue to completely and totally flout the law themselves for 10-15 years), then you just leave them behind when you get bounced and blame somebody else for hating your kids, for saying they should go home with you.....

come on, this is truly a "nobody else left to blame" thing. It's just a pitiful victimology scam.

It's literally no different than not paying your taxes for 25 years and claiming that its racist and hateful for someone to bring it up. An administrative process that one is a lifelong cheater on.


 
foolish
superstar
Total Posts: 3001
*
Average Post Ranks%:             
User Rank%:                       
09-08-17 01:14 PM - Post#1703890    


    In response to NYRfan

I think you're mixing your metaphors here. My objection to your previous post was that you were counting sins of the parent against the child. Being here illegally is a civil offense, not criminal.

The criminal offense is crossing the border illegally. If someone's parents crossed illegally when the kid was 2, are you REALLY holding the 2 year old responsible for that crime? Do you really support expulsion for that child-now-adult now that they've lived here for 25 years when we offer no actual mechanism to grant the right to stay? If DJTs actions force the handoff congress and a legal mechanism is built to allow the dreamers to get real status, and they choose not to, chuck them, but to expel someone for a civil offense for which they had no reasonable recourse to avoid, is excessive. And don't give me the "they don't have rights" bullshit, you know that isn't true.

Finally, the post you quoted me in was related to birthright citizenship. Which is something I'm fine with removing. It has nothing to do with DACA.

There is nothing your ilk can do to really enrage me. Though simple minded, conservatives who think war and prisons are the answer to everything sadden me greatly.

edit: just noticed I used the f-word in my previous post a few times. Looks angry. Wasn't angry. Get your point though. Its kinda nice to have you back.

Edited by foolish on 09-08-17 01:16 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
 
Pete
legend
Total Posts: 10343
*
Average Post Ranks%:             
User Rank%:                       
 
09-08-17 04:25 PM - Post#1703898    


    In response to foolish

Plenty of Dems like war games. It isn't just righties. Although it is an easy, lazy way of differentiation among the two.

Just sayin'
 
NYRfan
legend
Total Posts: 34529
*
Average Post Ranks%:             
User Rank%:                       
09-08-17 05:05 PM - Post#1703900    


    In response to foolish

  • foolish Said:
I think you're mixing your metaphors here. My objection to your previous post was that you were counting sins of the parent against the child. Being here illegally is a civil offense, not criminal.

The criminal offense is crossing the border illegally. If someone's parents crossed illegally when the kid was 2, are you REALLY holding the 2 year old responsible for that crime? Do you really support expulsion for that child-now-adult now that they've lived here for 25 years when we offer no actual mechanism to grant the right to stay? If DJTs actions force the handoff congress and a legal mechanism is built to allow the dreamers to get real status, and they choose not to, chuck them, but to expel someone for a civil offense for which they had no reasonable recourse to avoid, is excessive. And don't give me the "they don't have rights" bullshit, you know that isn't true.

They don't have American constitutional rights. These are for actual American citizens. Go tell Mexico you have "a right" to do whatever you need to do in their country. All it will get you is a beating. America is the only country that the left thinks should be giving everybody everything, including America constitutional rights. It's basically ridiculous.

Finally, the post you quoted me in was related to birthright citizenship. Which is something I'm fine with removing. It has nothing to do with DACA.

DACA is simply an administrative extension of birthright. Giving a 30-year-old an excuse for waking up in America courtesy of an illegal parent, instead of an infant.

There is nothing your ilk can do to really enrage me. Though simple minded, conservatives who think war and prisons are the answer to everything sadden me greatly.

I don't recall ever saying this...

edit: just noticed I used the f-word in my previous post a few times. Looks angry. Wasn't angry. Get your point though. Its kinda nice to have you back.

You're always angry and mean to me lol.





 
foolish
superstar
Total Posts: 3001
*
Average Post Ranks%:             
User Rank%:                       
09-08-17 06:03 PM - Post#1703901    


    In response to NYRfan

Constitutional rights are not limited to citizens or even legal residents. Thats a fact. I promise. I should know. I'm not a citizen and I can carry a weapon or mouth off and expect due process. Though I would highly recommend that we introduce law to require people to prove citizenship (with appropriate photo ID) to purchase weapons... though the NRA won't like it.

Re: the second point - that 30 year old came across as a child, and was never extended an opportunity for citizenship. Most visas would also be off-limits as they require an entry to the country. the 30 year old is already in the country, they can't leave to get their visa. There is no real option for them.

I will be nicer to you, my little snowflake lol.
 
HEAVYWEIGHT
legend
Total Posts: 10505
*
Average Post Ranks%:             
User Rank%:                       
09-08-17 07:43 PM - Post#1703906    


    In response to foolish

Allow all 1 million DACA KIDS TO be legalized Americans.

BEFORE that, secure the border 100%, can we all AGREE?

This takes a bit from both sides, but at the end of the day, WE ALL WIN.


 
DaveRichterfan
all star
Total Posts: 2194
*
Average Post Ranks%:             
User Rank%:                       
09-09-17 10:15 AM - Post#1703919    


    In response to HEAVYWEIGHT

  • HEAVYWEIGHT Said:
Allow all 1 million DACA KIDS TO be legalized Americans. yet continue to enforce the stipulation regarding criminal acts! Also, no new DACA "entrants". If both parents are illegal, ship them ALL out

BEFORE that, secure the border 100%, can we all AGREE?

This takes a bit from both sides, but at the end of the day, WE ALL WIN.And creating a clear path to citizenship following DJT recent EO regarding immigrants abilities to support themselves or contribute to the overall society. America must get it's own house in order first before we can resume a more "relaxed" standard.







Where's the money Lebowski?


 
NYRfan
legend
Total Posts: 34529
*
Average Post Ranks%:             
User Rank%:                       
09-09-17 11:52 PM - Post#1703931    


    In response to foolish

  • foolish Said:
Constitutional rights are not limited to citizens or even legal residents. Thats a fact. I promise. I should know. I'm not a citizen and I can carry a weapon or mouth off and expect due process. Though I would highly recommend that we introduce law to require people to prove citizenship (with appropriate photo ID) to purchase weapons... though the NRA won't like it.

Re: the second point - that 30 year old came across as a child, and was never extended an opportunity for citizenship. Most visas would also be off-limits as they require an entry to the country. the 30 year old is already in the country, they can't leave to get their visa. There is no real option for them.

I will be nicer to you, my little snowflake lol.



I agree to a small degree in that the constitution, as a conceptual framework that limits the govt more than it grants things to citizens, does in fact keep the govt from denying ANYONE in the US from being denied the second amendment. Even non-citizens.

The GOVT can not take rights like that away, from any person, in America.

However, people can't just show up from Mexico or anywhere else, and start demanding their "piece of the pie".

The constitution doesn't hand out stuff like you want it to. Thus, foreigners can't just demand various tangible things and announce it's their "pursuit of happiness" because they wandered over a border.

Sorry. There are countries, they have citizens, they create laws to give stuff go their citizens, but not to everyone on the planet. Regardless of endless liberal mental gymnastics.

People from other countries get what their countries are offering. If you want American free stuff, become an actual American citizen.


 
foolish
superstar
Total Posts: 3001
*
Average Post Ranks%:             
User Rank%:                       
09-10-17 03:49 PM - Post#1703941    


    In response to HEAVYWEIGHT

  • HEAVYWEIGHT Said:
Allow all 1 million DACA KIDS TO be legalized Americans.

BEFORE that, secure the border 100%, can we all AGREE?

This takes a bit from both sides, but at the end of the day, WE ALL WIN.



I'd agree, but I'm not sure if a 100% secured border is even possible without becoming a isolated country like NK. If you mean building the wall and creating groups to actually track visa holders and those whose visas have expired, I would wholeheartedly agree with you.

Especially if you threw in (or DJT throws in) a reasonable path to legal residency for folks who just want to work hard and raise the families in a better place.
 
Icon Legend Permissions & Sharing Options Topic Options
Print Topic


1363 Views
Follow
96 Online Now
1 viewable users and 0 hidden plus 95 guests are online now.
Ad
Recent Topics
FusionBB™ Version 3.2 | ©2003-2017 InteractivePHP, Inc.
Execution time: 0.688 seconds.   Total Queries: 754   Zlib Compression is on.
All times are (GMT-6.0). Current time is 05:48 PM
Top