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Username Post: Trump vs. the the Hard Left/Hard Right        (Topic#549770)
Canucko29
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01-10-18 10:44 AM - Post#1708746    



I'm guessing this will be another strange bedfellows thread, but it certainly appears that there are two segments who don't want immigration reform. For one, those who don't want Trump to have any legislative accomplishments, probably those suffering the most from Trump Derangement Syndrome, and who are willing to see the Democrats shut down government if it means not conceding anything to him. And of course a second segment who don't want to see any amnesty whatsoever on the hard right. You can include Tucker Carlson, Ann Couture and much of the populist right base that really stumped for him in the general election.

My take is simple. I completely disagreed with Tucker Carlson yesterday when he said that Americans don't have any blame when it comes to immigration when it was the actions of government. Actually, if you consider Americans part of a nation state, then yes citizens are to be blamed for the actions of their representatives. For years, the United States has done a piss-poor job of enforcing border laws and border security. That's not to say that Americans are 100% to blame, but they share in the blame. And with that, you share in the responsibility of coming to a compromise on a difficult issue.

I wouldn't see an issue with comprehensive immigration reform provided that border security issues are addressed and naturalization occurs gradually and with some serious caveats.

Now, shifting focus on the Democrats, I think they need to also be held accountable. This is probably their best chance ever at getting bipartisan agreement on a pathway to citizenship as the GOP has clearly laid out what they consider a reasonable compromise. I know that they would like nothing more than to have illegals voting in their districts within 2 years with full state benefits, but that kind of proposal will only further divide the country which can ill afford any more divide.

I personally think under the conditions that Trump laid out, the proposal is reasonable, fair and does not lend a predictable political advantage to either side and and entails risk to both sides. They say you know you have a good deal when both parties are unhappy with the terms, and I would suggest that this proposal meets that test.

What are everybody else's thoughts?




Edited by Canucko29 on 01-10-18 10:55 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.
 
Kanrok
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01-10-18 10:52 AM - Post#1708747    


    In response to Canucko29

I think I might have said here months ago that Trump would support some sort of amnesty program.

The Catholic in me supports this because I know families who would be greatly affected if something is not done.

Immigration reform should not be as hard as they make it.

I support a bipartisan approach to this issue.

Trump is actually playing this well.
“The greatest thing we can do just unite and love on each other and like, no barriers, no borders, like, we all need to just co-exist.”

- K. Perry


 
PuckRogue
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01-10-18 11:38 AM - Post#1708748    


    In response to Kanrok

Trump sent out the ICE crews to remove everyone who had a criminal history. Everyone who was crying over the guy in Hawaii (with two DUIs) is a fucking idiot. I don't care how "nice a guy" he is, if you went to France, got two DUIs and then petitioned for citizenship, they'd literally tell you to fuck off.

Trump's next move will be to give everyone who doesn't have a criminal history amnesty. Hispanics are overwhelmingly Catholic and are all little Republicans just waiting to vote. This will turn the tables that C29 mentioned with regard to "Dems loving to have them voting".

-PR


 
NYRfan
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01-10-18 02:17 PM - Post#1708754    


    In response to PuckRogue

I think the left is most apoplectic about not getting their expected "deal". Where they get everything they demand, and give nothing in trade.

That's always been the lib-dem concept, a child's view.

Obama turned it into a science, and convinced the left that they would never have to be fair or bargain in good faith again.

So what happens when an infantile gaggle of 40-50 million people don't get what they were promised ? You get the Trump "resistance". Saddest, sickest episode in American history.

They also see the writing on the wall (pun intended) that they won't get away with lying and cheating about the wall for the 3rd time. Trump won't let them skate like Reagan and GW did, letting them totally go back on a legal, official agreement.


 
foolish
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01-10-18 02:59 PM - Post#1708755    


    In response to Canucko29

  • Canucko29 Said:
I'm guessing this will be another strange bedfellows thread, but it certainly appears that there are two segments who don't want immigration reform. For one, those who don't want Trump to have any legislative accomplishments, probably those suffering the most from Trump Derangement Syndrome, and who are willing to see the Democrats shut down government if it means not conceding anything to him. ?



Substitute "Obama" for "Trump" and "Republican" for "Democrat" and you have a post I could have made anytime in the last administration.

Partisan shit aside, it needs to stop. I'm doing my best to form an opinion on each trump move on its own merit, but damn its hard with the media (all of it).
 
foolish
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01-10-18 03:00 PM - Post#1708756    


    In response to PuckRogue

  • PuckRogue Said:
Trump sent out the ICE crews to remove everyone who had a criminal history. Everyone who was crying over the guy in Hawaii (with two DUIs) is a fucking idiot. I don't care how "nice a guy" he is, if you went to France, got two DUIs and then petitioned for citizenship, they'd literally tell you to fuck off.

Trump's next move will be to give everyone who doesn't have a criminal history amnesty. Hispanics are overwhelmingly Catholic and are all little Republicans just waiting to vote. This will turn the tables that C29 mentioned with regard to "Dems loving to have them voting".

-PR


I think there is ample evidence that they're gone beyond just grabbing ciminals. Thats my mason-dixon on this issue. Get rid of all the dangerous folks you want, but don't drag a parent away from their kids at gunpoint.
 
Pete
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01-10-18 03:40 PM - Post#1708759    


    In response to foolish

I think the notion that so many of these people are Catholics and will likely vote R in the future is a grave oversimplification. The school system, culture, and other influential tools will have a much more dramatic impact on these individuals then there parent(s) faith in my opinion.

I'd rather shitcan anyone who legally or illegally downloaded a Kendrick Lamar track in the last 18 months. All of 'em.
 
NYRfan
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01-10-18 03:42 PM - Post#1708760    


    In response to foolish

What happens to kids of bank robbers, or murderers, or embezzlers ?

Pretty sick of this theory that we owe criminals a free ride for their whole family, including everybody 40 years older and 40 years younger.

It's just a ridiculous concept.

Especially when the real option is going home to your country of citizenship. It's not execution or jailing or maiming.

Wow, the level of dishonesty and deliberate obtuseness required to support the weepy left's take on this...... numbing.


 
PuckRogue
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01-10-18 03:52 PM - Post#1708761    


    In response to foolish

  • foolish Said:
  • PuckRogue Said:
Trump sent out the ICE crews to remove everyone who had a criminal history. Everyone who was crying over the guy in Hawaii (with two DUIs) is a fucking idiot. I don't care how "nice a guy" he is, if you went to France, got two DUIs and then petitioned for citizenship, they'd literally tell you to fuck off.

Trump's next move will be to give everyone who doesn't have a criminal history amnesty. Hispanics are overwhelmingly Catholic and are all little Republicans just waiting to vote. This will turn the tables that C29 mentioned with regard to "Dems loving to have them voting".

-PR


I think there is ample evidence that they're gone beyond just grabbing ciminals. Thats my mason-dixon on this issue. Get rid of all the dangerous folks you want, but don't drag a parent away from their kids at gunpoint.



Link? Every single story I’ve read (or had to do research on) had some kind of criminal element to it.

Allow me to crush any example you provide.

-PR


 
Johnny_Upton
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01-10-18 04:20 PM - Post#1708762    


    In response to foolish

  • foolish Said:
  • Canucko29 Said:
I'm guessing this will be another strange bedfellows thread, but it certainly appears that there are two segments who don't want immigration reform. For one, those who don't want Trump to have any legislative accomplishments, probably those suffering the most from Trump Derangement Syndrome, and who are willing to see the Democrats shut down government if it means not conceding anything to him. ?



Substitute "Obama" for "Trump" and "Republican" for "Democrat" and you have a post I could have made anytime in the last administration.

Partisan shit aside, it needs to stop. I'm doing my best to form an opinion on each trump move on its own merit, but damn its hard with the media (all of it).



It started on this issue prior to Obama

Bush could have passed immigration reform if the Dems were willing to work with him at all.

Unfortunately they viewed potentially losing support among Hispanics over solving a problem.

I think Trump is doing the calculus to see if he can convince Hispanic voters that he is working on the issue and if he can throw the Shitlibs under the bus for not supporting the bill. It probably forces Dems in swing districts to support a reasonable bill
Dis somanumbatching country was founded so that the liberties of common patriotic citizens like me could not be taken away by a bunch of fargin iceholes... like yourselves.

#Filthystrong


 
Canucko29
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01-10-18 06:23 PM - Post#1708767    


    In response to Pete

  • Pete Said:
I think the notion that so many of these people are Catholics and will likely vote R in the future is a grave oversimplification. The school system, culture, and other influential tools will have a much more dramatic impact on these individuals then there parent(s) faith in my opinion.

I'd rather shitcan anyone who legally or illegally downloaded a Kendrick Lamar track in the last 18 months. All of 'em.



On the other hand, Latinos have always been more Republican than blacks. Usually 30-35% voting Repub in general elections whereas blacks haven't come close to those numbers since the Eisenhower days. These people come from countries that are very poorly managed, usually socialist, and have a very negative experience with big government authorities.

The Democrats always have to walk a tight rope with them knowing that they tend to be a little bit more socially conservative and probably even hold stronger values on liberty and freedom than most black people do. I don't think a naturalized legal Mexican population is a shoe in for Democrats. Not by a long shot.


 
Canucko29
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01-10-18 06:26 PM - Post#1708768    


    In response to Johnny_Upton

  • Johnny_Upton Said:
  • foolish Said:
  • Canucko29 Said:
I'm guessing this will be another strange bedfellows thread, but it certainly appears that there are two segments who don't want immigration reform. For one, those who don't want Trump to have any legislative accomplishments, probably those suffering the most from Trump Derangement Syndrome, and who are willing to see the Democrats shut down government if it means not conceding anything to him. ?



Substitute "Obama" for "Trump" and "Republican" for "Democrat" and you have a post I could have made anytime in the last administration.

Partisan shit aside, it needs to stop. I'm doing my best to form an opinion on each trump move on its own merit, but damn its hard with the media (all of it).



It started on this issue prior to Obama

Bush could have passed immigration reform if the Dems were willing to work with him at all.

Unfortunately they viewed potentially losing support among Hispanics over solving a problem.

I think Trump is doing the calculus to see if he can convince Hispanic voters that he is working on the issue and if he can throw the Shitlibs under the bus for not supporting the bill. It probably forces Dems in swing districts to support a reasonable bill



If you want to talk about Obama and where his values lied, all one needs to look at is his Executive Order on Cuban refugees landing in Florida. It's all about votes. Not principles.


 
foolish
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01-10-18 11:16 PM - Post#1708771    


    In response to PuckRogue

  • PuckRogue Said:
  • foolish Said:
  • PuckRogue Said:
Trump sent out the ICE crews to remove everyone who had a criminal history. Everyone who was crying over the guy in Hawaii (with two DUIs) is a fucking idiot. I don't care how "nice a guy" he is, if you went to France, got two DUIs and then petitioned for citizenship, they'd literally tell you to fuck off.

Trump's next move will be to give everyone who doesn't have a criminal history amnesty. Hispanics are overwhelmingly Catholic and are all little Republicans just waiting to vote. This will turn the tables that C29 mentioned with regard to "Dems loving to have them voting".

-PR


I think there is ample evidence that they're gone beyond just grabbing ciminals. Thats my mason-dixon on this issue. Get rid of all the dangerous folks you want, but don't drag a parent away from their kids at gunpoint.



Link? Every single story I’ve read (or had to do research on) had some kind of criminal element to it.

Allow me to crush any example you provide.

-PR



There are hundreds! Bring it big boy!

http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/27/politics/c onnecticut...
 
PuckRogue
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01-11-18 11:57 AM - Post#1708785    


    In response to foolish

  • foolish Said:
  • PuckRogue Said:
  • foolish Said:
  • PuckRogue Said:
Trump sent out the ICE crews to remove everyone who had a criminal history. Everyone who was crying over the guy in Hawaii (with two DUIs) is a fucking idiot. I don't care how "nice a guy" he is, if you went to France, got two DUIs and then petitioned for citizenship, they'd literally tell you to fuck off.

Trump's next move will be to give everyone who doesn't have a criminal history amnesty. Hispanics are overwhelmingly Catholic and are all little Republicans just waiting to vote. This will turn the tables that C29 mentioned with regard to "Dems loving to have them voting".

-PR


I think there is ample evidence that they're gone beyond just grabbing ciminals. Thats my mason-dixon on this issue. Get rid of all the dangerous folks you want, but don't drag a parent away from their kids at gunpoint.



Link? Every single story I’ve read (or had to do research on) had some kind of criminal element to it.

Allow me to crush any example you provide.

-PR



There are hundreds! Bring it big boy!

http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/27/politics/c onnecticut...



Did you read the article? He was going through the process properly until he missed a court date and then an order was issued for him to leave the country.

He wasn't tracked down by ICE, he has simply been informed, through proper channels because of his mistake, that he needs to leave.

-PR


 
foolish
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01-11-18 01:10 PM - Post#1708790    


    In response to PuckRogue

Are you kidding? You have to be kidding. That makes him a bad hombre? Also, are you moving the goalposts, or did I misunderstand your challenge. That dude had no criminal record, wasn't that your criteria?
 
FreezingTexan
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01-11-18 02:39 PM - Post#1708798    


    In response to foolish

  • foolish Said:
  • PuckRogue Said:
Trump sent out the ICE crews to remove everyone who had a criminal history. Everyone who was crying over the guy in Hawaii (with two DUIs) is a fucking idiot. I don't care how "nice a guy" he is, if you went to France, got two DUIs and then petitioned for citizenship, they'd literally tell you to fuck off.

Trump's next move will be to give everyone who doesn't have a criminal history amnesty. Hispanics are overwhelmingly Catholic and are all little Republicans just waiting to vote. This will turn the tables that C29 mentioned with regard to "Dems loving to have them voting".

-PR


I think there is ample evidence that they're gone beyond just grabbing ciminals. Thats my mason-dixon on this issue. Get rid of all the dangerous folks you want, but don't drag a parent away from their kids at gunpoint.




https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-saga-of-elian-gon zalez-a-lost-boy-who-was- finally-found
Germany, it's like Wisconsin only with a really bad past.


 
Pete
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01-11-18 03:38 PM - Post#1708802    


    In response to Canucko29

  • Canucko29 Said:
  • Pete Said:
I think the notion that so many of these people are Catholics and will likely vote R in the future is a grave oversimplification. The school system, culture, and other influential tools will have a much more dramatic impact on these individuals then there parent(s) faith in my opinion.

I'd rather shitcan anyone who legally or illegally downloaded a Kendrick Lamar track in the last 18 months. All of 'em.



On the other hand, Latinos have always been more Republican than blacks. Usually 30-35% voting Repub in general elections whereas blacks haven't come close to those numbers since the Eisenhower days. These people come from countries that are very poorly managed, usually socialist, and have a very negative experience with big government authorities.

The Democrats always have to walk a tight rope with them knowing that they tend to be a little bit more socially conservative and probably even hold stronger values on liberty and freedom than most black people do. I don't think a naturalized legal Mexican population is a shoe in for Democrats. Not by a long shot.



Oh I agree wholeheartedly. I was just pointing out that there are so many different forms of stimulus and so much of it seems to be more favorable to a liberal mentality. I think it's safe to say that the left has won the culture war in this country and only a mighty storm could influence that otherwise.
 
PuckRogue
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01-12-18 11:50 AM - Post#1708846    


    In response to foolish

  • foolish Said:
Are you kidding? You have to be kidding. That makes him a bad hombre? Also, are you moving the goalposts, or did I misunderstand your challenge. That dude had no criminal record, wasn't that your criteria?



Is it a criminal offense to miss a court date while you're petitioning for citizenship? No.

Is it grounds for dismissing your opportunity to continue to petition for citizenship? Yes.

This isn't a "we've hunted him down and are going to send him back", this is "we sent him a letter letting him know that he fucked up and has to go, now"

-PR


 
Johnny_Upton
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01-12-18 12:37 PM - Post#1708848    


    In response to PuckRogue

Foolish

Something doesnt smell "right" in that story. While I'm sympathetic if the story's true with the guys plight, it doesnt make sense that per his comment - he's been working towards citizenship for a decade (Thanks Obama!)

I think there might be something else going on here
Dis somanumbatching country was founded so that the liberties of common patriotic citizens like me could not be taken away by a bunch of fargin iceholes... like yourselves.

#Filthystrong


 
HEAVYWEIGHT
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01-13-18 10:44 PM - Post#1708915    


    In response to Johnny_Upton



 
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